Joist and Deck Shortages - Updates? 2

[phamENG]

At long last I have a steel job in the pipeline. (Wood is interesting and has been growing on me, but it's been getting old doing it day in and day out.) I know last year there was a pretty big squeeze on joist and deck. I know steel in general has been high and lots of folks have been keeping stocks low and pulling spot orders from mills as they need material, but as I understand it fabricated steel products like joists and rolled sheet was running many months (10+) behind. Any updates? Are people still seeing this? Thanks.

East coast/Mid-Atlantic if anyone has any region specific insights, but nationwide knowledge is still valuable as these things ship pretty long distances.

 

[phamENG]

Unless they have up to date market updates for cost and supply chain timing built in for paying subscribers, I'm not sure how RAM software is relevant?

 

[ALK2415]

@ phamENG
you said looking for castellated beam ?

 

[phamENG]

Nope. The whole point of the thread is go share experiences with supply chain shortages and delays in the joist market so we can advise our clients appropriately.

I mentioned castellated beams as a joke...they've fallen out of use in recent decades since they have high fabrication costs for minimal material savings. Joists have large material savings with scalable manufacturing, so they won. But if joist manufacturers can't keep up, the economies of various 'alternative' designs may have to be recalculated.

 

[ALK2415]

@ phamENG
Good to know that "they've fallen out of use in recent decades" - around here they keep growing/spreading up
ONE more question;
do you have a manual/reference that specify the approximate weight of steel structure Psf [based on area] ?
I got a job of elevated cable stayed roof [45 ft height] so i though i could compare my weight result with these manual (Rule of thumbs kind)

 

[phamENG]

You're also in Iraq. I had several professors from that part of the world. They told us that a lot of construction economy over there is the exact opposite of what we deal with in the States - like doubling labor to save a few percent of the original steel weight. Over here, labor is expensive and material is (relatively) cheap - so a 150% material increase to reduce labor by 15% is often a net savings.

No. I have no clue how to estimate something like that. Pretty neat looking, though.

 

[milkshakelake]

I got an update regarding East Coast (I'm based in New York). Not sure about decks, but the joist market is still weak. It's still expensive as shit and lead times are long. Concrete is still king as a result. Wondering what others' experiences are.

 

[driftLimiter]

Joists here are in my area of the west coast are both delayed and at a surcharge right now.

Recently had to redesign a traditional OWSJ/OWSJG system due to this. The proposed alternative is 3" roof deck with WF rafters, and Gr65 WF Girders with a drop in cantilever system.

TBH I am happy to see the drop-in system back in play .

 

[phamENG]

We have a local deck supplier I talked to a couple months ago. He said they were filling orders quickly, but prices were still sky high. The plate and sheet market are loosely related, and talking to a contact at our "local" plate mill, prices are sky high but volume is low. They're shut down almost half of ever month, but killing it on profit margins. So that's not an issue if you have deep pockets. Not sure about joists, though. I designed a job this summer with joists (I warned them but they wanted to anyway), but haven't heard a peep out of that one. Interest rates may have killed that one.

 

[milkshakelake]

@phamENG Why would someone buy a deck and pay more money if flat slab concrete and formwork is the same price, if not cheaper? It doesn't make sense that the deck/joist supplier will make a killing. The high prices don't seem sustainable to me. With my clients, I *believe* that it's because they're just used to CMU + joist and don't want to switch to concrete, but others have based on price.

 

[phamENG]

The prices are high enough right now that the mills are making a significant profit (it is down some from the peak in 21) on the steel they're selling. They're not selling much, but the market is letting them make up for it on the margins.

Why would somebody do it? Scale. Flat plate concrete may be cheaper building a 5 story office building, but a single or double story office building with a 5,000sf footprint? Or a fast food joint in the suburbs? Flat plate isn't going to come out cheaper, I don't think.

 

[jayrod12]

don't forget that there's more to the costing than just the material costs of the floor plates themselves. A cast-in-place concrete structure weighs far more than a standard joist and deck building. Where I am, the foundation costs for these types of buildings is one of those things that owners/construction managers seem to hone in on as a huge expense (I personally don't see that when I review the pricing, but to them the foundation is a wasted cost since they never get to see it). Therefore if I were to tell them that I could save them schedule and the cost of the floor plate itself would be the same but I'd need to increase the foundations and perhaps some columns/pilasters, they'd tell me to take a walk.