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Jet A1 Complete Segregation System 3
- Thread starter Tuga29
- Start date
LittleInch
Petroleum
Both are seen and depends to a greater or lesser extent on distance and type of flow.
In general aviation product will not accept any of the interface between the two products, so either the whole or part of the interface needs to be diverted to the slops tank depending if the other product can accept aviation or not.
If your distance is less than 15 to 20km, it is more likely that you operate two pipelines and not one, but depends on whether you can have two separate inputs. E.g. if you're unloading a ship from an SPM, you only have one hose and one subsea line so it's multi=product.
If it's a jetty or an inter terminal transfer, you could easily have two.
If you've got multi product, you need to have a double isolation valve on the manifold and interlocks to make sure your don't accidentally mix the two together and observe strict segregation between products once you've gone past the inlet manifold.
Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.
In general aviation product will not accept any of the interface between the two products, so either the whole or part of the interface needs to be diverted to the slops tank depending if the other product can accept aviation or not.
If your distance is less than 15 to 20km, it is more likely that you operate two pipelines and not one, but depends on whether you can have two separate inputs. E.g. if you're unloading a ship from an SPM, you only have one hose and one subsea line so it's multi=product.
If it's a jetty or an inter terminal transfer, you could easily have two.
If you've got multi product, you need to have a double isolation valve on the manifold and interlocks to make sure your don't accidentally mix the two together and observe strict segregation between products once you've gone past the inlet manifold.
Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.
- Thread starter
- #3
Thanks LittleInch.
It's a jetty and the distance to the storage tanks is 6km.
The problem is that in the employer requirements we have a multi-product pipeline but now the contractor says that this can't be and that we must have a dedicated pipeline to JET A1.
Any code or standard about this issue requiring the dedicated pipeline?
It's a jetty and the distance to the storage tanks is 6km.
The problem is that in the employer requirements we have a multi-product pipeline but now the contractor says that this can't be and that we must have a dedicated pipeline to JET A1.
Any code or standard about this issue requiring the dedicated pipeline?
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1
- #4
LittleInch
Petroleum
Not that I'm aware of.
To be fair, 6km is rather short for a MP pipeline, The interface isn't well developed and you need to move the valves quickly to catch it, but all of these things are really operational ones.
If you can run a MP pipeline for 100's of km, you can run one for 1km - just need to adapt your operating system to cope.
You might find that the velocity is quite high for such a short line and hence the opening speed of the valves and the sensors to monitor the interface need to be carefully positioned.
With a MP pipeline there is always the potential for mixing product accidentally. Only the client can decide if this risk is worth the saving in CAPEX, which for 6km might not be there.
In short there is no "Must", but in this instance dedicated lines might be cheaper and easier to control with less valves and less material taken to slops than a MP line.
Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.
To be fair, 6km is rather short for a MP pipeline, The interface isn't well developed and you need to move the valves quickly to catch it, but all of these things are really operational ones.
If you can run a MP pipeline for 100's of km, you can run one for 1km - just need to adapt your operating system to cope.
You might find that the velocity is quite high for such a short line and hence the opening speed of the valves and the sensors to monitor the interface need to be carefully positioned.
With a MP pipeline there is always the potential for mixing product accidentally. Only the client can decide if this risk is worth the saving in CAPEX, which for 6km might not be there.
In short there is no "Must", but in this instance dedicated lines might be cheaper and easier to control with less valves and less material taken to slops than a MP line.
Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.
- Thread starter
- #5
LittleInch
Petroleum
You might find that the end user likes to have dedicated systems or that people like military bases or some local requirement requires it, but AFAIK, there is no international standard requirement.
Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.
Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.
This issue is reviewed in the attached article.
"At jointly operated facilities such as marine berths, where dedicated jet fuel piping is not available, jet fuels should be imported/exported via white oil lines reserved for middle distillates such as kerosene and gas oil. With multi-product pipelines, jet fuels are prone to higher contamination due to commingling of batches, surfactants which cling to the pipeline wall, free water and particulate matter. Leading and trailing grade interfaces must be diverted to slop tanks or non-aviation fuel storage tanks. Recertification is generally mandatory with multi-product pipeline transport. Batch planning and tracking is of particular importance to avoid jet fuels failing the quality tests."
"At jointly operated facilities such as marine berths, where dedicated jet fuel piping is not available, jet fuels should be imported/exported via white oil lines reserved for middle distillates such as kerosene and gas oil. With multi-product pipelines, jet fuels are prone to higher contamination due to commingling of batches, surfactants which cling to the pipeline wall, free water and particulate matter. Leading and trailing grade interfaces must be diverted to slop tanks or non-aviation fuel storage tanks. Recertification is generally mandatory with multi-product pipeline transport. Batch planning and tracking is of particular importance to avoid jet fuels failing the quality tests."
LittleInch
Petroleum
I've seen that article before and don't agree with all of it. It is all well and good until you come the final bit - 5 years experience of the writer.....
The general drift of the para selected is Ok. Certification comes in various forms for Jet fuel, form a full analysis to a quicker reduced check of parameters at the final storage tank.
Generally once a tank is sealed from inputs for final delivery, that batch is certified. As soon as you add more new fuel in, the entire tank needs a new batch number and a new test.
Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.
The general drift of the para selected is Ok. Certification comes in various forms for Jet fuel, form a full analysis to a quicker reduced check of parameters at the final storage tank.
Generally once a tank is sealed from inputs for final delivery, that batch is certified. As soon as you add more new fuel in, the entire tank needs a new batch number and a new test.
Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.
- Thread starter
- #9
Just one more thing.
A dedicated ( in this case JETA1) line should be rest with ADO or not or eventually empty when there are no transfer operation that in this case could be 1 month? Because if the line should be rested with ADO then the dedicated line to avoid contamination does not make sense.
A dedicated ( in this case JETA1) line should be rest with ADO or not or eventually empty when there are no transfer operation that in this case could be 1 month? Because if the line should be rested with ADO then the dedicated line to avoid contamination does not make sense.
LittleInch
Petroleum
Sorry, but please explain what ADO is? I don't understand this last post.
Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.
Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.
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1
- #11
Automotive Diesel Oil
The main concern with Jet fuel is water, which can lead to many problems. Water contamination should not be a problem in the pipeline. Jet fuel should remain stable for a long time under dry conditions.
The answer will be determined by your pumping schedule. Do you receive all of the products frequently or is there some times between shipments.
The main concern with Jet fuel is water, which can lead to many problems. Water contamination should not be a problem in the pipeline. Jet fuel should remain stable for a long time under dry conditions.
The answer will be determined by your pumping schedule. Do you receive all of the products frequently or is there some times between shipments.
- Thread starter
- #12
LittleInch
Petroleum
I agree with bimr. I've never heard of an aviation fuel line being cleared with another product. It should be like any other line - try and ensure you keep it under positive pressure so it doesn't draw in any water or air but storing fuel in a pipe or a tank is no different. One month between parcels is fine.
You should include at the jetty end a good high mesh filter and a water coalesce to remove any entrained water. Stop water and dirt getting into your system at the earliest possible location, not deal with it afterwards.
Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.
You should include at the jetty end a good high mesh filter and a water coalesce to remove any entrained water. Stop water and dirt getting into your system at the earliest possible location, not deal with it afterwards.
Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.
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1
- #14
Saudi Aramco operates their 400km Ras Tanura to Riyadh product system, (for which I did the hydraulic design) using 2 parallel pipelines, one line runs gasoline only and the other runs two products, Jet A1 and Diesel. Before placing the second line in service, one pipeline ran all products in batch trains ordered by gasoline, diesel, jet, diesel, gasoline. It is definitely possible and common to run a multiproduct operatioin with one pipeline, however in your case only having 6km of length, it is definitely NOT optimum to run batches as too much interface mixture will be created which would require the jet fuel component of that mixture to be sold off as lower value diesel, or the entire interface sent back to a refinery for reprocessing. The more batches you run, the more money lost to interface downgrades. A 6km long pipeline definitely needs to be one product only to be economically viabble.
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- #15
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