So being a young,up and coming mech designer, after years of applying for paid and unpaid internships,I finally was accepted at a fairly large company. That was about a year ago and so far all I've learned is how much every department seems to hate and blame engineering and "CYA"... Spending time on here I have seen its fairly common. Even though that was very vague, Im hoping to start a good survival thread here, maybe get some advice.
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Is it all really like this? 50
- Thread starter REVK
- Start date
Every company has it's politics. As they say one bad apple spoils the batch.
You can tough it out, or look at the smaller companies which have less politics.
A company I worked for once would do middle managment haircuts every few years. But I came to relize that was a good thing.
You can tough it out, or look at the smaller companies which have less politics.
A company I worked for once would do middle managment haircuts every few years. But I came to relize that was a good thing.
- Thread starter
- #3
It's just the failure to progress for me that is upsetting, given the company, i could care less if they prosper or not but i want to move forward... It's the politics that seem to hold me back, and that can make someone develop a piss-poor attitude towards things.
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- #4
You've been there a year and you're crabby about not moving up? And I can guarantee they see your "I could care less about this company" attitude. Take a deep breath, find some patience, and work to better the company. Then promotions will come.
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- #5
Any time you have two people together, you will have politics. If you think you need to bolster your skills, invest in learning how to work with people and not compromise your values. And know your values intimately before getting too cocky about your political skills. There are innumerable ways to get tripped up in life. And if you get tripped up, remember it's not the end of the world and you will recover. I've learned a number of my greatest lessons through my failures.
Patience is a virtue to practice not simply admire in others. Be still and know Who is in control of all things.
Managers are in control, not you, so you'll move up in their timing. They, like you, will need to be still sometimes, too. Like sita noted, the managers will detect your lack of concern for the company's bottom line. If the company doesn't make money, people don't keep jobs. That is a fundamental of life not some abstract thought for philosophical types. The company does not exist to allow anyone to move up. They exist to make money. What you think comes across to others. You'll need to work out your thoughts and attitudes to correct that. When you're in charge, you'll have lessons of what not to do to your subordinates.
It's easy to become negative in life. It's a lot more profitable to be and remain positive in life despite the trials endured. The trials will come and that isn't what is important. The important aspect of trials is how you handle them. Grace and poise are invaluable assets in every aspect of life and especially so with life's hardships. If you think this is easy to do, you have not been sufficiently challenged yet. If you learn to use grace and poise, eventually someone will thank you for their application to them. Then you will know how you impact others' lives for the good, which is humbling.
I've known other engineering graduates interested in climbing the ladder move out of engineering to climb. They weren't interested in engineering beyond climbing the ladder. If that is your situation, you may want to look at other options. Engineering is an excellent springboard to other jobs or professions. There is no shame in using an engineering degree in that manner, as long as you are truthful about it with yourself and others. Know yourself intimately to determine the true source of your frustrations and how to correct them.
Pamela K. Quillin, P.E.
Quillin Engineering, LLC
Patience is a virtue to practice not simply admire in others. Be still and know Who is in control of all things.
Managers are in control, not you, so you'll move up in their timing. They, like you, will need to be still sometimes, too. Like sita noted, the managers will detect your lack of concern for the company's bottom line. If the company doesn't make money, people don't keep jobs. That is a fundamental of life not some abstract thought for philosophical types. The company does not exist to allow anyone to move up. They exist to make money. What you think comes across to others. You'll need to work out your thoughts and attitudes to correct that. When you're in charge, you'll have lessons of what not to do to your subordinates.
It's easy to become negative in life. It's a lot more profitable to be and remain positive in life despite the trials endured. The trials will come and that isn't what is important. The important aspect of trials is how you handle them. Grace and poise are invaluable assets in every aspect of life and especially so with life's hardships. If you think this is easy to do, you have not been sufficiently challenged yet. If you learn to use grace and poise, eventually someone will thank you for their application to them. Then you will know how you impact others' lives for the good, which is humbling.
I've known other engineering graduates interested in climbing the ladder move out of engineering to climb. They weren't interested in engineering beyond climbing the ladder. If that is your situation, you may want to look at other options. Engineering is an excellent springboard to other jobs or professions. There is no shame in using an engineering degree in that manner, as long as you are truthful about it with yourself and others. Know yourself intimately to determine the true source of your frustrations and how to correct them.
Pamela K. Quillin, P.E.
Quillin Engineering, LLC
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- #6
I started in engineering at a very large company. At that time there were around 9,000 employees, and over 1,000 engineers, under one roof. I did not like it there. I had similar thoughts as the OP. I left after four years. Went to a much smaller company where there were around 10 engineers. I learned a lot. Now twenty-some years later I know a lot about material handling; I do not have a pension; the people who started with me at the big company are eligible for retirement with pensions; I have earned advanced degrees; I am respected in an industry that is extremely cyclical.
Mixed bag of lessons learned.
Might be better to have an interesting hobby and a dull job.
Mixed bag of lessons learned.
Might be better to have an interesting hobby and a dull job.
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- #7
GregLocock
Automotive
" i could care less if they prosper or not"
They could care less whether you get promoted or not.
Now the two of you are about even. You've both got wet trousers and the audience are laughing their heads off.
Cheers
Greg Locock
New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376
They could care less whether you get promoted or not.
Now the two of you are about even. You've both got wet trousers and the audience are laughing their heads off.
Cheers
Greg Locock
New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376
- Thread starter
- #8
thanks for the input, greglocock, im a lowly engineer/intern.. im sure they get there's either way! i just imagined id get moved into a DRAFTING position by now... i try to maintain a professional composure but it becomes hard when your at the bottom and most problems are pointed towards you.
"CYA" is the company motto
"CYA" is the company motto
- Thread starter
- #9
Politics and immaturity are common.
Blaming engineering is because they are ignorant.
Patience and thick skin will help you more than anything.
Chris
SolidWorks 11
ctopher's home
SolidWorks Legion
Blaming engineering is because they are ignorant.
Patience and thick skin will help you more than anything.
Chris
SolidWorks 11
ctopher's home
SolidWorks Legion
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- #11
REVK,
At my second employer out of university I was in a similar position to you. I was doing a mix of maintenance technician's work on the older, dirtier, unreliable parts of the process, plus the engineering crap which the older guys didn't much fancy. In hindsight I'm quite pleased with that experience. Here are a few things I learned:
[li]Bad design is inexcusable. Take pride in your own designs and make them as good as you possibly can.[/li]
[li]Few things are so good that they can't be improved, and few things are so bad that they can't be improved. Fixing 'impossible' problems gets your name displayed in all kinds of positive ways.[/li]
[li]Taking on the awkward tasks means you get involved with all sorts of interesting things and interesting people. Lots of career doors open when you have broad experience and have contacts on the inside.[/li]
[li]In a manufacturing environment you need friends on the shop floor, among the trades and supervisors. Respect them, learn from them, listen to what works and what doesn't, and ask what can be improved.[/li]
Seems to me that you are at a similar place in your career. The question is, do you want to confront the difficulties or run away?
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If we learn from our mistakes I'm getting a great education!
At my second employer out of university I was in a similar position to you. I was doing a mix of maintenance technician's work on the older, dirtier, unreliable parts of the process, plus the engineering crap which the older guys didn't much fancy. In hindsight I'm quite pleased with that experience. Here are a few things I learned:
[li]Bad design is inexcusable. Take pride in your own designs and make them as good as you possibly can.[/li]
[li]Few things are so good that they can't be improved, and few things are so bad that they can't be improved. Fixing 'impossible' problems gets your name displayed in all kinds of positive ways.[/li]
[li]Taking on the awkward tasks means you get involved with all sorts of interesting things and interesting people. Lots of career doors open when you have broad experience and have contacts on the inside.[/li]
[li]In a manufacturing environment you need friends on the shop floor, among the trades and supervisors. Respect them, learn from them, listen to what works and what doesn't, and ask what can be improved.[/li]
Seems to me that you are at a similar place in your career. The question is, do you want to confront the difficulties or run away?
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If we learn from our mistakes I'm getting a great education!
patprimmer
New member
There is a lot of good advice above. I particularly like what slta, Greg and Scotty have to say.
Of course we can only speculate after reading what seems to be more of a grumble than an objective statement of fact. I also detected a fair dose of entitlement. At school and at home you might have been entitled to all sorts of rewards not really earned the hard way. In the real world rewards are almost only the hard won type.
Regards
Pat
See FAQ731-376 for tips on use of eng-tips by professional engineers &
for site rules
Of course we can only speculate after reading what seems to be more of a grumble than an objective statement of fact. I also detected a fair dose of entitlement. At school and at home you might have been entitled to all sorts of rewards not really earned the hard way. In the real world rewards are almost only the hard won type.
Regards
Pat
See FAQ731-376 for tips on use of eng-tips by professional engineers &
for site rules
What do people see when they look at you?
Do they see a lowly intern type low level guy that want's things; are you just towing the line?
Or do they see someone that has figured out who's in charge, and has approached that person for advice on how to further their career? Do they see someone that has gone to upper level management types, and asked them what classes they should consider taking to learn more? Do they see someone that has taken some extra steps to learn about business, how things work, what's important to the company, and how can you deliver some productivity in those areas?
You attitude is 90% of your success. What does yours look like?
Charlie
Do they see a lowly intern type low level guy that want's things; are you just towing the line?
Or do they see someone that has figured out who's in charge, and has approached that person for advice on how to further their career? Do they see someone that has gone to upper level management types, and asked them what classes they should consider taking to learn more? Do they see someone that has taken some extra steps to learn about business, how things work, what's important to the company, and how can you deliver some productivity in those areas?
You attitude is 90% of your success. What does yours look like?
Charlie
- Thread starter
- #14
ScottyUk,
in hindsight, your right, i think the experience here will be benneficial. Mostly i am just mad with the politics and the general outlook on engineering from manufacturing and all departments. I didn't realize you kind of inherit the past follies of engineering when you start somewhere. I have gone out on the floor and asked them what they needed from us or what we do that does or doesn't work. I guess in college you just have this image in your head of how things will be, then it turns out it is very different.. not to say i don't like engineering or design, but just didn't think that there would be as much BS.
Patprimmer,
There is a new designer at the office that really pissed me off when he first started, becuase he walked around with a sence of entitlement but he never really earned anything... as much as that made me mad, i feel a little guilty looking back, becuase like you said i kind of do...
FACS,
At first, i was very motivated and wanted to learn as much as i could, spent time out on the floor asking questions, talked to the designers and managers. Its just so easy to become so cynical
and unfortunatly i may have earned a certain image amongst engineering that i didn't want. im still motivated to learn, and spend a lot of time outside of work studying and doing research but i kind of have a chip on my shoulder now. I guess my original post was kind of out of anger, just seems real easy to feel that way.
Thanks all for the good advise, this was pretty good timing because i have my review today and i was going to walk in to my managers office with a little of that "chip on my shoulder" mentality, now i feel a bit more calm about things.
in hindsight, your right, i think the experience here will be benneficial. Mostly i am just mad with the politics and the general outlook on engineering from manufacturing and all departments. I didn't realize you kind of inherit the past follies of engineering when you start somewhere. I have gone out on the floor and asked them what they needed from us or what we do that does or doesn't work. I guess in college you just have this image in your head of how things will be, then it turns out it is very different.. not to say i don't like engineering or design, but just didn't think that there would be as much BS.
Patprimmer,
There is a new designer at the office that really pissed me off when he first started, becuase he walked around with a sence of entitlement but he never really earned anything... as much as that made me mad, i feel a little guilty looking back, becuase like you said i kind of do...
FACS,
At first, i was very motivated and wanted to learn as much as i could, spent time out on the floor asking questions, talked to the designers and managers. Its just so easy to become so cynical
and unfortunatly i may have earned a certain image amongst engineering that i didn't want. im still motivated to learn, and spend a lot of time outside of work studying and doing research but i kind of have a chip on my shoulder now. I guess my original post was kind of out of anger, just seems real easy to feel that way.
Thanks all for the good advise, this was pretty good timing because i have my review today and i was going to walk in to my managers office with a little of that "chip on my shoulder" mentality, now i feel a bit more calm about things.
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- #15
spongebob007
Military
Companies are like dysfunctional families. Some companies are worse than others. CYA seems to be the standard operating procedure at many places and the blame often goes to engineering. Like you I had a different idea about engineering when I was in school. I felt being an engineer was a title that earned respect. The truth is if you are a good engineer your peers will repsect you, however when things go wrong management will always blame engineering and when things go right, management takes all the credit. I find that management types are often so out of touch that their opinion of you could be completely different than what your peers think of you and you would think that when it comes time for promotion or raises your boss would get input from your colleagues, but you would probably be wrong about that. We had a good program at my company where feedback from peeers, other managers, and even subordinates was used for performance reviews. That lasted for one year. I wish I had a better picture to paint, but corporate America sucks and can easily kill all the joy of what could be an otherwise very interesting and rewarding career.
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- #16
ImminentCollapse
Structural
REVK,
I'll add one other point, and please take this constructively. If your spoken and official written correspondence is as unpolished as your posts here, that may be a part, perhaps small, but still a part of the problem. Inconsistent capitalization, mixing up your and you're, bad punctuation, can all reflect poorly on you.
Take the time to get all of that correct, especially in work communications where you are constantly being evaluated for those promotions.
IC
I'll add one other point, and please take this constructively. If your spoken and official written correspondence is as unpolished as your posts here, that may be a part, perhaps small, but still a part of the problem. Inconsistent capitalization, mixing up your and you're, bad punctuation, can all reflect poorly on you.
Take the time to get all of that correct, especially in work communications where you are constantly being evaluated for those promotions.
IC
- Thread starter
- #17
ImminentCollapse,
Thank you for your criticism... sometimes i forget i am on a professional forum and not a jeep forum! lol, yes, i use correct grammar and punctuation at work. after my evaluation today that isn't even a blip on my radar...i appreciate your concern and yes even at that aspect of a professional career.
Thank you for your criticism... sometimes i forget i am on a professional forum and not a jeep forum! lol, yes, i use correct grammar and punctuation at work. after my evaluation today that isn't even a blip on my radar...i appreciate your concern and yes even at that aspect of a professional career.
So REVK, how did it go, any useful feedback?
Posting guidelines faq731-376 (probably not aimed specifically at you)
What is Engineering anyway: faq1088-1484
What is Engineering anyway: faq1088-1484
- Thread starter
- #19
KENAT,
It wasn't bad, a little more impersonal than i expected though. I found out, to my boss, i am motivated, hard working, and sometimes too eager to learn but that i am "un-reliable" and not in the sense that i don't' come to work, but apparently i can get distracted with other tasks and fail to meet my deadlines..it wasn't bad he just said i've left room for improvement
It wasn't bad, a little more impersonal than i expected though. I found out, to my boss, i am motivated, hard working, and sometimes too eager to learn but that i am "un-reliable" and not in the sense that i don't' come to work, but apparently i can get distracted with other tasks and fail to meet my deadlines..it wasn't bad he just said i've left room for improvement
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- #20
REVK, I'm glad your review went so good. We all have room for improvement, if we're honest enough to admit it.
CYA is a part of life. It's always been and always will be. When I see it, I think about Eve blaming the serpent for deceiving her and Adam blaming Eve for his own fall from grace.
I've worked with operators and mechanics who had very harsh attitudes towards engineers. I found a plethora of reasons ranging from jealousy to shafted by poor designs. I found most want recognition for their humanity. If you take the high road with them, some will change their attitude towards you and the working environment will improve. The stubbornly jealous ones I learned to work with but not work on.
You're on the right track so keep up the good work. Stabilize your emotions such that others don't influence your ability to do your job to the best of your ability and negativity doesn't seep into your personal life.
Pamela K. Quillin, P.E.
Quillin Engineering, LLC
CYA is a part of life. It's always been and always will be. When I see it, I think about Eve blaming the serpent for deceiving her and Adam blaming Eve for his own fall from grace.
I've worked with operators and mechanics who had very harsh attitudes towards engineers. I found a plethora of reasons ranging from jealousy to shafted by poor designs. I found most want recognition for their humanity. If you take the high road with them, some will change their attitude towards you and the working environment will improve. The stubbornly jealous ones I learned to work with but not work on.
You're on the right track so keep up the good work. Stabilize your emotions such that others don't influence your ability to do your job to the best of your ability and negativity doesn't seep into your personal life.
Pamela K. Quillin, P.E.
Quillin Engineering, LLC
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