Iran Bans Women from 77 University Programs, Largely Engineering & Physical Sciences 14

[SAITAETGrad]

News out of Iran. Worthy of discussion.

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[lacajun]

It isn't surprising. About the time the Shah fell, I had a male, Iranian friend at college. What an experience!

Pamela K. Quillin, P.E.
Quillin Engineering, LLC

 

[cranky108]

Not that I want to start any heated arguments, but it almost appears like they don't like women in a position of athorty. A male ego trip to see who can own the most women.

There might be another religon reason that escapes me, so I don't know why. Please enlighten me on why if you know more than me.

Just from an outsider perspective, this looks like something other than what they might explain it to be.

 

[MiketheEngineer]

Put women at the bottom where they belong!!! I am REALLY kidding. Typical mid-eastern thinking. No wonder they are 3rd world nations living just above abject poverty with little to no future!!! The Dark Age is being re-born in this part of the world!!! Why we are any way involved - I have no clue except for some stupid President who I will not name....

 

[cranky108]

I don't excatly like the term third world, as it implies a second world, which I can't identify.

I do see in pictures from the middle east a lack of the female influence. No flowers and such. Maybe they are decended from mars.

They did invent zero (if I recall correctly), which is better than the romans.

I would rather say they can't out think us because they have half there brains tied behind there backs.

 

[TheTick]

What always strikes me about such aspects of sexism and racism is the idea that a society somehow believes it is better off when it marginalizes half (or more) of its creativity and brainpower.

 

[SomptingGuy]

The second world were still having civil wars while the first world were into their industrial revolution.

- Steve

 

[fel3]

I was in college from 1976-1980, so my tenure spanned the fall of the Shah and the capture of the US embassy. We had many middle eastern students in our civil engineering program, including some from Iran, some from Jordan, a couple from Lebanon, etc. My best estimate is about ten Iranian students in my class alone. We also had a few middle eastern women in our program, one of who I know for certain was from Iran ("M"). A couple of the others may also have been from Iran but I didn't remember now.

M was fairly western in her outlook (her father had a some position in the Shah's regime; her best friend in our program was an American gal). M was a very good student, very well-liked, and ended up graduating near the top of our class. A couple of the Iranian guys were also fairly western in their outlook (one even married an American gal) and they didn't seem to have a problem with M getting an education. However, the rest of the Iranian guys had a more "traditional" viewpoint. On the one hand they would criticize M for being "too American" (she wore contemporary American style clothes) and on the other hand they would contantly pester her for her class notes. (To be fair, they pestered a lot of us for our class notes. As you can imagine, these guys were not as successful as those of us who actually went to class all the time and took our own notes, but I digress.)

Several times I witnesses one or more of these "traditional" Iranian guys pestering M in Farsi for her class notes. Each time, her response would be "We're in American, we speak English." Then she would walk away and leave these losers with dumbfounded expressions. I don't think they ever figured it out.

==========
"Is it the only lesson of history that mankind is unteachable?"
--Winston S. Churchill

 

[lacajun]

fel3, I watched my friend go from being more hedonistic than any of the American kids to hyper-religious. He stopped drinking, smoking pot, and dancing at the clubs but didn't give up cigarettes. He made it a point to pray, which was a big switch. He needed help with mathematics. And, there is more... What an experience!

There was one Iranian woman in the dorm but she was quite a bit more traditional in wearing all the clothing, praying, not socializing with Americans, etc. She scolded the male Iranian quite often for adopting American ways. Quite an interesting dynamic to see. She was maybe 2 years older but acted ancient and very closed off.

I knew a former pilot in the Shah's regime, who barely made it out of Iran alive, with his family. Khomeini was after all of the Shah's "people" to kill them. He married an American gal and they had a baby. It was a scary time for them. It reinforced my thoughts on marrying outside of my country.

Pamela K. Quillin, P.E.
Quillin Engineering, LLC

 

[patprimmer]

I firmly believe in equality and social justice, but I do consider that the Muslim extremists also firmly believe they are right. They believe so firmly that some will deliberately sacrifice their life as suicide bombers etc for their cause. Which of us is so strongly bound to our beliefs.

Who is the umpire who decides which belief is the correct one? I guess this is partly why I am an atheist and only moderately support democracy and even less capitalism from an ideological point of view.



Regards
Pat
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[EngineerErrant]

Who is the umpire who decides which belief is the correct one?

Either the one who lasts the longest, or the one with the most power.

I hope that we get an influx of brilliant women from the Middle East who are as outraged by this nonsense as I am.

"Engineers like to solve problems. If there are no problems handily available, they will create their own problems." -Scott Adams

 

[ImminentCollapse]

The most desperately needed social change in the history of the planet is a sexual revolution in the middle east. Until women are liberated there, and they have equal rights and opportunity to influence governmental policy with their levity and perspective to balance the sabre-rattling and neanderthalism, I think we are doomed.

IC

 

[cranky108]

While liberation of people sounds like a good idea, it dosen't work for everyone. I believe there are people who need to be controlled. People with no direction and no idea on what to do with there lives. They maybe better off if they were controlled (call me insensitive).

But... for most people liberation is good and is a much better thing we do.

Everyone has a right to there religon, but ...but they should be allowed to make there own choice.

I do support democracy and capitalism, because counter to some theorys, they work better than other systems. Not that they are perfect, and people will point that out, but they work better for more people.

If I were king, I would support that system because it worked for me.

 

[patprimmer]

cranky

You mean in your opinion.

Regards
Pat
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[TheTick]

"Democracy" and "capitalism" are only means to an end. What really counts is liberty and rule of law.

 

[rb1957]

i do hope we're not saying they're wrong to do this. in our opinion, foolish (since we think they're missing out on a lot of talent) and out-dated (western societies would have been similar through to WW2, ok they wouldn't have banned women from applied, just made it impossible). they presumably are doing this with some justification, hopefully something more sensible (to me) than their stance on homosexuality ... "there are no homosexuals in Iran, none". I suspect there is something in the Koran that supports this, but it is surprising for a culture that championed education in the "dark ages" and that allowed greek and roman knowledge and literature to survive. of course, back then it was (i think, and i welcome correction) education for men only. but then maybe that is the problem in trying to live by a book written hundreds of years ago; today's culture/norms is inconceaviblily different from the culture that existed then. society's norms change over time ... one time (long ago) slavery was considered "right" and defendable by "the good book"; then opinions changed and today it is pretty much unthinkable. the role of women in society has undergone a revolution over the last 50 years, which is only a moment in time.

 

[patprimmer]

I think the bit about Sodom and Gomorrah are in both the bible and the koran.

Tick I do actually agree.

Regards
Pat
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[fel3]

Pamela…

M's parents barely made it out of Iran themselves during this period. I still remember M's anxiety during this time and how a bunch of us (pretty much all Americans) gave her moral support. She didn't find out for about 6 weeks if they made it out or not. Through it all, she kept up with her coursework, but she obviously had a much harder time than the rest of us. A little Internet sleuthing and I discovered that she later completed a master's degree and is still in the US. Her best American friend works for a local agency. I should find out if they're still in contact.

Also during this time, several of the "traditional" Iranian guys joined protests on campus with about a hundred other Iranian students from various majors. You may remember these: they all wore paper bags over their heads and shouted "Death to America." A friend of mine (electrical engineering student and ex-Air Force officer) shamed several of them into quitting the protests. He told a group of them "You should thank God you're in the US, where we protect freedom of speech. If you protested like that in Iran you would be arrested, tortured, and possibly killed."

Fun times…not so much.

Fred

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"Is it the only lesson of history that mankind is unteachable?"
--Winston S. Churchill

 

[TheTick]

"You should thank God you're in the US, where we protect freedom of speech. If you protested like that in Iran you would be arrested, tortured, and possibly killed."

This was true enough both before and after the fall of the Shah.

 

[fel3]

Agreed, but all thing considered it went from bad to worse when the Shah fell.

==========
"Is it the only lesson of history that mankind is unteachable?"
--Winston S. Churchill