If I pass both SE exams do I become licensed in Pennsylvania as a PE? 4

[jrogers14464]

If I pass both SE exams do I become licensed in Pennsylvania as a PE? I asked the state board twice and got the response below twice.

"Pennsylvania does not license by discipline. As long as you pass the PE exam, we do not have any requirements as to what discipline it must be in".

To me this meant that I have to take the Civil PE exam with a structural concentration, is this the case? In the past I thought you could take the old structure I and II exams then get licensed as a PE. Is this not the case with the SE?

 

[ToadJones]

I am pretty sure that if you get an SE license it is still the same old stamp and you are considered a PE and an SE...I could be wrong.
The reason being is that you used to be able to get a PE license simply by passing SEI (the old SE I). Then, if you went back and took SE II,, you would be an SE as well.

 

[Ron]

In general, you would be a PE in states that do not license by discipline (most states) and an SE in discipline licensed states provided your examination and qualifications are acceptable to that state. Some SE states have requirements beyond the SE2 (seismic addition for example). As TJ noted, only the SE1 is required for PE requirement satisfaction (one of my partners took the SE1 exam to satisfy the PE requirements in Florida, which is also a "non-discipline" license state similar to Pennsylvania).

 

[msquared48]

I thought that in order to take the S1 and S2 exams, you already had to be a PE. Has this changed?

Mike McCann
MMC Engineering

http://mmcengineering.tripod.com

 

[JAE]

Mike - each state has their own rules but most states accept the SE1 as equivalent to the PE (Principles in Practice) exam.

However, with the advent of the new 16 hour SE exam, there is no SE1 or SE2 any longer. I believe that the exam is either all pass (all 16 hours) or all fail so passing the first 8 hour portion is not longer valid. However, each state board should be checked as they are all independent.

 

[frv]

JAE.. that's not entirely accurate.. The exam is divided into Gravity and Lateral on two separate days. You can pass each independently, but you must pass both at some point to pass the exam. In other words, you can take both, pass only gravity on your first try (and fail lateral), then you need to take and pass only Lateral on your second try.

What IS required is to pass both the morning breadth and afternoon depth of each module in order to pass that particular module.

 

[JAE]

frv - correct but in total, you haven't really passed anything until BOTH Friday and Saturday are passed.

They are no longer two separate tests, but you can pass each "section" of the test separately, correct?

And I don't believe any state can allow you to pass the Friday section and then respond with some kind of licensure because NCEES won't identify you as passing anything until both are passed.

 

[kylesito]

JAE...yes, that's correct...you can pass each day individually and not have to retake it but you must pass both Friday and Saturday in order to 'pass' the SE exam. Passing all 16 hours of the SE is equivalent to passing the Civil-Structural (or other discipline) in states which do not license SE's seperate. Passing only one day will not be enough to get you a license in any state.

Having taken both recently, I highly recommend anyone who is in a state that does not license Structural guys seperate to simply go ahead with the Civil-Structural exam and get it out of the way. I do believe the 16 Hour SE exam is a much better measure of a persons basic understanding of structural engineering and it actually worries me a little how 'easy' the Civil-Structural was in comparison to the 16 hour test (neither are easy in the normal sense but only relative to one another), but getting the PE is too important of a step to wait around for. Plus, it took a lot of presure me when I actually was studying for the SE exam to know I already had a PE in my home state.




PE, SE
Eastern United States

"If a builder builds a house for someone, and does not construct it properly, and the house which he built falls in and kills its owner, then that builder shall be put to death!"
~Code of Hammurabi

 

[jrogers14464]

What has bothered me the most is the lack of knowledge on if a state will accept the SE exams since they don't license by discipline. It should be a simple yes or no answer of "If I pass the SE exams, do I become a PE in Pennsylvania?". As you can see above, I've contacted the state and the local engineering societies, but I can't get a straight answer. I hate having to re-learn transportation, water resource, and environmental engineering just to pass an exam. It is such a waste of time, money spent on review material, and money for the Civil PE exam.

Another question, say you want to become SE licensed in a state that licenses by discipline, do you have to take the exam in that state? To take the Civil PE exam you must take the exam in the state you want to become licensed, in my case PA.

kylesito, do you need to be authorized by the state that licenses by discipline or can you have your own non-discipline specific state give you the "okay" to sit for the SE exam?

 

[nutte]

As others have stated, "SE exams" is not correct. The Structural exam is one exam, administered over two days. You can pass the first day and the second day in different sittings, but you have to pass both days before you're considered to have pased the test ("test" singular).

Generally in states that don't license by discipline, to become licensed as a PE, you'll need to pass a PE exam. This could be in Civil, Mechanical, or any other discipline. I would think that the Structural exam would satisfy this requirement, but it's hard to say with it being so new. Contacting your state's board is the way to go. However, I'd suggest a phone call, so you can ask specific questions. Based on the original post, it sounds like you sent a vague or poorly worded email and subsequently received a vague answer.

 

[kylesito]

Passing the SE or PE in any state should be accepted in all the other states (they are all given by NCEES). The exception to "for a state that licenses SE's seperately, do you need to take the exam in that state" are states which require a 3rd test which is a state specific exam. One example of this would be California where you need to take this third test which is more of a seismic/building code exam.

For PA though, regardless if you pass the 1 day Civil-Structural or the 2 day Structural exam...you will have met the requirements for obtaining a PE license in that or any other state (unless they require a state specific exam on top of this).

I know what you mean about not getting a straight answer. I have run into this in a few other places. Don't bother with NSPE or any of the other state versions about this question either. They seem to have a chip on their shoulder about structural guys who want a seperate license and so they seem reluctant to want to promote or even acknowledge the 16 hour test because I think they feel it's one step closer to doing it. I remember asking about whether the local NSPE chapter was going to add a review course for the SE exam when it came out and basically got scolded that the 16 hour test was unnecessary. And when I called the regulation board for my state and asked about what the application requirements were for taking it (I already had my PE), the lady seemed as reluctant to help me out as the NSPE folks. Not totally sure what their deal is with it.

PE, SE
Eastern United States

"If a builder builds a house for someone, and does not construct it properly, and the house which he built falls in and kills its owner, then that builder shall be put to death!"
~Code of Hammurabi

 

[MiketheEngineer]

Just apply and let them figure it out

 

[steellion]

There is no such thing as an S.E. in Pennsylvania. You must pass both sections of the 16-hr Structural test OR the Civil exam to be a P.E. If you pass the 16-hour test in any state, you are eligible to apply for S.E. licensure in a state that recognizes SE licenses as separate from PE licenses. But most SE states have additional state-specific requirements beyond the 16-hour test.

 

[CANPRO]

Thank God I'm Canadian...I didn't realize the States were so inconsistent

 

[fegenbush]

CANEIT,

The provinces are almost as inconsistent...

 

[JAE]

kylesito - I don't believe California still will use their "mountain states" third SE exam as one of the reasons for NCEES developing the new 16 hour exam was to get rid of that special test out west and get buy-in from the western states on the new 16 hour.

 

[kylesito]

Ah...well that is excellent news JAE. The more we can do to simplify this the better.



PE, SE
Eastern United States

"If a builder builds a house for someone, and does not construct it properly, and the house which he built falls in and kills its owner, then that builder shall be put to death!"
~Code of Hammurabi

 

[WARose]

I think even with the new “unified’ exam.....there would still be some issues with trying to become an SE in a state like California. I think you still have to be endorsed/recommended by a number of SEs in those states. That poses an obstacle for most East coast guys as the typical structural engineer doesn’t know many who have that credential. I know people who are registered in California as civil engineers.......but not SEs.