How would you build a car to compete for the X Prize? 4

[EdDanzer]

The rules for the Automotive X Prize (

http://auto.xprize.org/)

will be posted soon.

They think it will take less than 18 month to finance, design, provide a detailed production cost analysis, build and test a 100 mpg 4 passenger car that meets all the safety and emission standards world wide.

How do you think this can be done?

 

[GregLocock]

I'll find the latter out, 6'2 at a rough guess.

http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/pot_anth.html

6'1.3" not a bad guess!

Looking through the rules I've got to say it is a beauty contest. Many aspects of the design are judged by what is appropriate, or whatever, by a panel.

They won't release the route over which the fuel consumption/speed is to be measured. This is to prevent 'gaming', or as engineers call it, optimisation.

The crash requirement is going to be very expensive.

and as I've pointed out, the timing is ridiculous.



Cheers

Greg Locock

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

 

[tbuelna]

The rules require meeting tier II bin 5 emissions. If you plan on using a combustion engine, that's not likely to happen unless you use a production engine with the emission control system already in place.

 

[franzh]

Hey sports fans:
Available elsewhere in the world, but not in the US, are nice, 2 seaters cars that reach more than double the CAFE of ours (the Ford KA for example) and meet all Euro standards for crash and emissions. Hmmm. It seems that some tweaking of that package would almost meet the X-Auto platform (hybridize most likely).

The claims that they are not available here in the US due to lack of customer acceptance (too small, too slow, dangerous, hogwash!) and other yackety yack stuff.

While in Europe recently, I had an opportunity to drive a nice 2 seater that altough was tight for my 6 foot 3 inch frame, was workable. That car brought me well over 40 mpg at a performance level I could live with. I see them in Mexico frequently but not in Canada.

Sign me as frustrated by the selection of world cars not available here in the US.

Franz

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[MikeHalloran]

You could restore a King Midget...



Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[EdDanzer]

I don’t think there is any choice but to use a combustion engine in the main stream class, the energy density, cost of manufacture and weight penalties of electric drives will be their limitation. Until the target sales price is established there is no way of knowing what technologies can be used.

 

[thundair]

I guess I have a lot to learn about production rates..
Of course in my field we have parts per day not parts per second..

The 100 MPG will eliminate the use of ethanol


Cheers

I don't know anything but the people that do.

 

[dcasto]

Get 12.5 to 1 compression ratio engine (<.5 liter) burning pure o-xylene which has 115% more energy per gallon than diesel and 100+ octane rateing.

 

[tbuelna]

dcasto,

The rules limit your selection of fuels:

"At this point, we expect to provide gasoline, diesel, electricity, natural gas, bio-diesel, and E85; the final list will be determined after initial applications are reviewed (additional fuels will require a clear business case that a vehicle using a non-mainstream fuel can succeed in the marketplace within a few years)."

 

[shbazjinkens]

thundair,

The contest is for 100 MPGequivalent, meaning that the thermal values of the fuels are taken into account relative to gasoline and there are corrected (and different) MPG values for fuels other than gasoline.

 

[GMIracing]

I have heard rumors that VW is restarting R&D into their 1 Liter Car. (200+ MPG)

http://www.seriouswheels.com/cars/top-vw-1-liter-car.htm

 

[FoMoCoMoFo]

"The Automotive X PRIZE will invite teams from around the world to focus on a single goal: design viable, clean and super-efficient cars that people want to buy" The problem is in that last bit.Its the market (Mike mentions above) If people wanted to buy clean super-efficient cars the roads would be clogged with them. Its not a technological problem,its more a public policy issue. So until fuel gets a lot more exspensive the the roads will continue to be clogged with cars trucks & SUVs that are about as heavy and efficient as they were 50 years ago. Happy Motoring

 

[WGJ]

Ref GMIracing's ref to the VW 'One Litre Car' project.

This 'One Litre Car' nomenclature means 100 km (62 miles) on one litre of fuel (about 288 mile/imperial gallon or 244 mile/US gallon).

Just-Auto.com had an item on this last week. VW's Dr Ferdinand Piech provided the following press release:

Volkswagen will build a one litre car within the next three to four years, according to supervisory board chairman Ferdinand Piech.

Piech told Braunschweiger Zeitung, a newspaper local to the Volkswagen Wolfsburg site, that a one litre car (consuming just one litre of fuel for every 100km [60 miles] driven) had been made possible by falling prices for lightweight body parts and in particular for plastic parts.

Piech said a plastics manufacturer had told hime that parts that currently cost EUR35,000 to produce would cost just EUR5,000, meaning that they become economically viable. "That was not possible in my time," said Piech, formerly CEO of Volkswagen. "This is progress."

According to dpa-AFX, Piech was driven to his last annual general meeting as CEO in a small two-seat one litre car prototype. The car had a carbon body and consumed just 0.89l of fuel per 100km.

Piech was critical of his successor Bernd Pischetsrieder who ceased development work on both the one litre car and a cheaper-to-produce three litre version.

With Martin Winterkorn now heading up the VW Group, Piech said that the cars would be revived after a development period of three to four years.

Bill

 

[tbuelna]

"If people wanted to buy clean super-efficient cars the roads would be clogged with them.

FINALLY! A poster who understands the economics of the automotive business. Way to go FoMoCoMoFo.

 

[turbocohen]

Hybrid Diesel. New low sulphur diesel systems with series/parallel capability. are the ticket. The efficiencies and low weight are here today.

 

[dcasto]

Low weight, right a titanium car or composites from a stealth airplane. Just think how cool and the appeal to macho SUV people. Don't worry about the cost, we'll get to that later.

 

[Rob45]

Franz-
Blame your government - specifically, NHTSA - for the unavailability of micro-cars in the U.S.

Mike:
10,000 units per year is not at all too small for hand-building. We build up to 40,000 trucks a year by hand, most to individual specific customer order.

But as to designing a car to get the "X-Prize:" First you get all the drugs you can find...

 

[GregLocock]

10000 cars a year is doable by hand, it is twice what Ferrari do, but you'll still end up with about the same level of automation as say a 1980s Japanese plant - lots of jigs and handling devices, just not many robots.

You will have a production line, it may be a push-along one.

Cheers

Greg Locock

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