How will I call myself a mechanical engineer? 2

[Barry1492]

I just read the electrical thread and got some real good insight. However, I have some questions myself.

I am graduating with a BS in ME in a couple of months and am currently looking for jobs. I'm a little older than most students (early 30's) and have a previous career from a previous degree....so my perspective IS a little different. Anyway, I had pretty much prepared myself for a life of paper pushing in big companies because....well...that's what happens.

Anyway, very recently I've been approached by people at my current internship about signing me on full time when I graduate. I work in a small research lab affiliated with a University that works on really cool cutting edge stuff and is recognized as one of the top in its field. In addition, I'll actually get trained on a couple of different design packages (ProE and some FEA software) and be directly involved in some cool projects.

OK....no brainer, right? So what's the problem? Well....as you may have guessed, lower pay. I'll probably start out $10K less than I can make elsewhere and don't anticipate big raises. Now, mind you, I don't need to drive a BMW, but I do have some pretty big debt to pay off. Also, its a pretty crappy commute.....but so is every job prospect that I've been looking at (I've been letting the Mrs. hear about her terrible choice for house location ; ). We are talking about moving in a year or so.

Anyway, I've got some obvious pros and cons.....pros = interesting work, immediate skill building, work environment that I'm comfortable with, 5 weeks of vacation, good benefits. cons = low pay, bad commute.

So, what I'm looking for are pros and cons that I haven't thought about and for some insight. The pay is low now...but will this prevent me from making more later in a new job? Will this be a good skill set and experience to carry over? Will a large company give me something that I won't get here?

Thanks - Barry

 

[GregLocock]

Take it, give it a year and then decide. If in that year you find a better job , terrific, if not, not.
One year on your resume will look fine given that you interned there.







Cheers

Greg Locock

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

 

[livingston]

Very few jobs start you out with 5 weeks vacation these days. That may explain the lower salary. Finding a job you really enjoy is almost priceless!

 

[SomptingGuy]

I started with 5 weeks and now after 15 years of service, I get 5.2 weeks. Yep, a whole day extra added at the 10 year point. And If I stay for another 5 years, it'll be 5.4 weeks - yippee!

However, 5 weeks is pretty typical in the UK.

 

[PSE]

If you feel you can maintain what you would consider a suitable lifestyle and be able to reduce your debt load, why not take it if you like the work. Take a look at the "total" cost of living in your area and you might find in some cases that 10K more in some areas will actually net you less than where you currently are. There may be additional benefits later on as well such as your children (should you have them) eventually being able to attend the University for lower tuition or perhaps even for free. Additionally, you may have opportunities to further enhance your own education if desired for less cost.

Talk to your potential co-workers and see what they think about working there.

Regards,

 

[CarolinaPE]

Personally I would think twice about taking a salary I was uncomfortable with right from the start. You should have plenty of opportunites if you are patient the right one will come along. M.E.'s are one of the top degrees sought by recruiters. If your plan is to truly move in a year then it will not likely make a huge difference. I am assuming that by stating "will it prevent me from making more in a new job" that you are referring to having to disclose this salary to a future employer? The skills it sounds like you are looking to develop as an M.E. are product/machine design related. Those skills are in demand but some areas (particulary working for appliance manufacturers) are under pretty intense pressure/competition from overseas. I'd be particularly careful about who I went to work for in this area of M.E. Larger companies tend to have better pay and benefits. The downside is that you may not have as much influence.

 

[Barry1492]

The downside is that you may not have as much influence.
***********

That was a point one of my friends had made to me. The fact that I've already been here for well over a year and that they already know that they like me means that I will be more involved in the projects then I would...say...in a new place that'll need some time to figure me out.

I had some experience with that when I left my job for a summer internship. I got used to the responsibility that my job gave me, yet was treated like I knew nothing at my new internship. I know that I was "just an intern," but it's difficult to live with that when you're in your 30's.

The point about making money later is that I want to make sure that this job is what you would call "good experience" that will look good on a resume.

 

[CarolinaPE]

A couple of other words of advice: when you do look for another place to move to next year give preference to places to live with more than one or two places to work. If there are several places to work it will help you out in the longrun. I have seen too many places treat their employees like garbage and the employees only choices were to pick up and move or suck it up.

If you are using Pro/E and FEA and doing machine design I would call that good experience. THat is experience that a lot of mechanicals tend to have (I believe about 40-50% do some sort of machine design). I would think that will look good on a resume and get your foot in the door.

Starting out again in your 30s can be tough, I made a career switch within mechanical (doing MEP and HVAC design work now) and it is TOUGH to go from a sr. level position to starting over!

 

[Jabberwocky]

My two cents:

All commutes suck equally (I think Einstein came up with that one.)

If you're truly happy and skill-building (and not actively losing money) then you should go for it. Money is only the means to achieve happiness, if you already have happiness, why do you need the extra money?

 

[MadMango]

Will a large company give me something that I won't get here?

I guess this depends greatly on the industry. Possibly exposure/expereince with standards, regulations, conformance issues? In short, repeatability of processes. I worked in the medical device field for a few years, now working for OEM. I wouldn't trade a manufacturing company for a R&D company, there's just so much to do in an OEM. I like wearing different hats and staying busy. Things never get stale, but that's just me.

[green]"I think there is a world market for maybe five computers."[/green]
Thomas Watson, chairman of IBM, 1943.
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[Barry1492]

Newfella,

Good advice on the move. That is something I have definitely thought of. My main focus is to find a place that isn't a terrible commute AND is centraly located to the industry.

Right now, we live on the far north west reaches of the city. So, EVERYTHING is to the east or the south. We fell into the trap of "wow, you can get a really nice house for the money here." Now I know why.

Yeah, it is definitely good to be able to quit a job and have something lined up in a moments notice. It's not the best policy, but it's good to be ready.

 

[kchida]

"Right now, we live on the far north west reaches of the city. So, EVERYTHING is to the east or the south. We fell into the trap of "wow, you can get a really nice house for the money here." Now I know why."

It's funny, the same thing happened with me. Welcome to the city of Boon. My commute is between 45 to 60 minutes. About twice a month I get stuck behind an accident and I'm on the road for 1.25 hours. Some of my coworkers live 75% further and they vanpool into work. This allows them to get some stuff done during their commute and they get to use the carpool lane. But if I could do it all over again, I would make the same decision. It's very simple...I need a garage.

 

[sms]

Have you really compared the total value of the packages. If you are getting 5 weeks vacation, I would suspect that you are working for a government related research organization. If that is the case the retirement benefits and medical benefits may well make up the $10,000 a year difference compared to the other organizations. I had a job where the employer put 1.5 dollars into the 401k for every dollar I put in up to 6% of my salary. That basically added anoter 9% to my compensation.

At least in the US you have to compare the entire value of the package. Comparing base salaries just does not work.

-The future's so bright I gotta wear shades!

 

[Beggar]

As a new engineering graduate, you shouldn't be nearly so concerned about the pay as you should about the experience and training you'll receive.

Your big pay raises will come when you get new jobs that leverage the skills and experience from your prior ones.

I started working in '89, worked for four years, took four years off, and have been working ever since. My salary has more than tripled over that time. My in-house raises have been between 2.5% and 4% per year. My new-job raises have been between 12% and 30%.

In the beginning, build your skills; your pay will take care of itself.

--------------------
Bring back the HP-15

http://www.hp15c.org

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[CarolinaPE]

Beggar makes some good points. I'd like to add to be very selective about WHAT you get your experience doing. Be aware of what the prospects in the future will be for the experience you are getting. It would be a shame to work your tail off for 5 years, get the experience in something that the job prospects are not too bright and have to start over again. Other good points Beggar makes involve having to switch companies to get bigger pay raises. For whatever reason (I cannot figure out), companies tend to give 3-5% raises annually without regard to your improving skill level. Nearly all companies I have worked for have done this. This only keeps you up with inflation and making the same salary as that new graduate. After gaining 3-5 years of experience all of the sudden you are not getting any more than the new graduates when adjusting for inflation. However other companies will pay much more due to your experience and is the reason people move to a new job.

 

[whyun]

I agree with Newfella that typical annual increase in salary is between 3 to 5%. It was true for most of my past companies. The salary increase (in terms of percentage) usually is highest during your first 10 years, gradually tapering to 3 to 5% range.

When a notable merit occurs, such as obtaining a PE license, winning a considerable size project, etc., firms usually give more than the usual raise.

Once you reach the upper percentile of the pay scale, even a 5% raise isn't so bad. Once you have most of the toys you "need", extra money doesn't contribute much to your overall happiness.

 

[whotmewory]

Barry"

Go for it kid! It sounds outstanding and there are always downsides to any option. You'll have some great networking opportunities. You'll be exposed to industrial visitors coming to see your work - and with whom you can introduce yourself. Yeah, to me at least, sounds like the positives far outweigh the negatives.

Hey, about your school tab. Why not talk to the school about forgiving some of your bills to them as part of your pay. Besides, the "tax bracket curve" defeats petty income differences. Changes less than $15,000/year tend to get eaten up by state, municiple and federal confiscation - er, taxes. Sorry.

Chris in NCX NASCAR Country.

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