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How to slow the closing of a rolling gate 2

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briceburg

Electrical
Jun 29, 2014
5
Some folks installed a rolling gate on a 7% grade. To open it, it rolls uphill. To close it, it rolls downhill.

The gate rolls along a 20' track between a brick house and the end-post of a fence along an alleyway. It rests against the fence end-post (6x6 pine) when closed, and against the house when all the way open. The track is anchored to a concrete driveway, and the gate is made of a 10' x 6' steel frame with cedar planks affixed to it. Needless to say; it is VERY heavy (300lbs?), hard to open, and very dangerous if left to close alone. If it were accidentally let go I imagine the impact would topple the end-post it rests against while closed, and end up in the alley.

I would like to minimize the damage done by the closing gate if let go. My idea is to slow the velocity of the gate -- but not sure what the best method is.

Some ideas are;

1. Counter weight - Fix an eye ring to the home, attach a rope to gate, run through ring and attach to some clock weights. Not sure if these will have enough slowing effect... and may allow the gate to be too easily opened? Could change with weather/rain?

2. A tension spring that works similarly to the above. Again, would it slow the gate in time?

3. A hydraulic fixture with a telescoping arm that when pulled on, will only pull out at a fixed, slow rate. This seems ideal but does anyone make them and what are they called?

Any suggestion are welcome!










 
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I would think that even an air pot might be adequate. I could see maybe the cylinder ends affixed to the post end, and the plungers with a taper to aid in alignment affixed to the gate itself. Air is quite compressible, so that's a possibility.

Presumably, you're using some sort of chain drive. If that's geared, then the gearing itself can provide so level of slowing, but the wear and tear on the gear teeth might be excessive.



TTFN
faq731-376
7ofakss

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Gravity is reliable. Use the counterweight system. Use pulleys rather than sliding the rope/chain through an eye to change the direction of motion. I'd use chain rather than rope. You might need to run the chain up and down over a series of pulleys to get the travel distance of the counterweight down to something reasonable, with extra weights.
 
It seems some sort of counterbalance weight would be the least amount of trouble. If done well, this would remove the gravity effects on the weight of the gate, wouldn't it? That would turn the problem into one of simply pushing & pulling a mass against friction.

To minimize effects of the mass of the gate whacking the post, one could attach an industrial damper on either element.

Then, of course, most any of these engineered solutions may be more expensive than redesigning the gate frame out of aluminum or composite material. Just a thought.

TygerDawg
Blue Technik LLC
Virtuoso Robotics Engineering
 
I guess that installing the gate level is not an option?

How about a gate opener?


 
I would suggest a cable & pulley mass balance system to reduce the amount of effort needed to open/close the gate. And maybe some sort of manually released passive braking system (like a spring-loaded foot that bears against the ground) to hold the gate in a given position if you stop pushing/pulling on it. The passive brake would be a good idea since a mechanical balance system may not always provide the exact counterforce needed to hold the gate in place. You'll also probably need to use some sort of compound pulley arrangement for the mass balance if you want to get 10' of cable travel in a 6' height.

Sounds like a fun engineering project if you have some free time on your hands. It's amazing how little energy it can take to operate an extremely heavy system that is well balanced.

Good luck to you.
Terry
 
Great responses from you all!

The gate is not on a chain drive now -- and the budget won't allow.

It seems that the counterweight system is the way to go, with the addition of a damper for emergencies.

A series of pulleys (compound arrangement) is the way to go -- I'll need to research how to get 10' of cable to travel @ 3' in height. BrianPetersen -> What kind of chain is recommended for this? Does it run through geared pulleys?

I also love the idea of a passive brake -- although this would need to be non-locking so the gate can be operated from both sides.

Thanks again for the inspiration!
 
Any safety risk of the gate closing "too fast" on people or cars? Any safety/security risk of the gate closing too slowly?
At the chosen speed, can you accept the risk that the gate will squish a car or person standing in the way?
 
racookpe1978 ->

There's a safety risk in the gate closing too fast. If someone is in the way or a car driving by at the time it smashes through the end post -- it won't be pretty. Not one for it closing too slowly.

I am having trouble devising a pulley system for the counterweight however. I'd like to get 10' of cable travel to @ 3-6' in height -- are there calculators for this?

Thannks
 
Briceburg,
Read through the attached, after you have grasped the principals involved it will be easy for you to calculate what you need.
B.E.

You are judged not by what you know, but by what you can do.
 
 http://www.constructionknowledge.net/public_domain_documents/Div_1_General/Basic_Skills/Block_and_Tackle_Basic%20Machines%20NAVEDTRA%2014037%201994.pdf
berkshire,

Thanks for sharing that. Very understandable, fun, and practical -- excellent resource!

I'm still unclear re: mechanical advantage and travel distance. They say if the mechanical distance is 2, you'll need to haul in twice the amount of rope. So with a gun tackle rig (2:1) lifting an object 10' high, you would pull in 20' of rope. They did not say if doubles each time.

If I rig a luff tackle with a 3:1 mechanical advantage, will I need to haul in 30' of rope to lift the object 10'?

Also -- does anyone know of an affordable maker of quality pulleys? I'd like something that lasts outside for years to come... and really like Harken but simply can't afford them for this project && am weary of going with National hardware and others I see on amazon.

 

Fabricate a 10+ foot long pipe with pulley on top. Sink the pipe into the ground at the end of the rail. Attach a cable to gate, over the pulley, down the hole, and add sufficient lead weights for counterbalance.

(Simplified solution, but you should get the idea. If you have 10+ feet of depth available.)

TygerDawg
Blue Technik LLC
Virtuoso Robotics Engineering
 
Galvanized or stainless steel wire rope and pulleys as used for overhead garage door.

If it's a 6 feet tall gate why are you constrained to 3 feet of height for your counterweight travel?
 
Mint,

It'll be less than 6' due to height of weight, + height of attachment pulley at top of gate. I also imagined I'd be rigging to the center point of the gate rail (midway to the top).

Can you confirm I'll need to haul in 3' of rope to lift an object 1' when rigged with a 3:1 mechanical advantage system?

Thanks!
 
Briceburg,
Mint julep has done the heavy lifting for you in his last post.
So now work backwards. What is the travel of the gate, I think you said 10'-0" How you have the mechanical dis-advantage of getting the short vertical lift. did you say 3'-0" that gives you a ratio of 3.333 so now you say the gate weighs 300 Lbs that would mean your block W in mint julep's sketch would have to weigh 1000Lbs.
Now the thing that you are going to have to play around with is the friction in those blocks.
B.E.

You are judged not by what you know, but by what you can do.
 
err, the gate weighs 300lb, but it's only on a 7% slope therefore the load on the rope is a lot less than 300lbs. I agree you need to think about the friction in the pulleys and the track, but a half tonne weight is maybe a bit excessive...

Actually not too sure how it works at the moment, but would seem to be people powered, so can't need that much force to open / close safely unless they are training to be a line backer or a wrestler....

My motto: Learn something new every day

Also: There's usually a good reason why everyone does it that way
 
If the guess of 300 pounds is correct then 7% grade gives you 21 pounds of grade force trying to close the gate.

I sketched a 1:4 mechanical disadvantage, so you are in the neighborhood of 90 pounds weight needed when rolling resistance and friction are considered, with a lift of 30 inches.
 
Sorry if I missed it, but how is the gate opened & closed?

If manual then how about a 'dead man brake' built into the handle?

Posting guidelines faq731-376 (probably not aimed specifically at you)
What is Engineering anyway: faq1088-1484
 
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