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Have you been innovative? 2
- Thread starter sughew
- Start date
One of my most innovative moments in structural engineering came during the design of a domed stadium. I was working with an EIT and the two of us were beginning to model a stay-cable roof system which was made up of three outriggers - one over the roof and two to the outside area beyond the roof. In plan each mast formed the letter "Y".
This involved five sets of cables - one from the roof up to the top of the high mast, two from the top of the mast to the the tips of the two outer outriggers, and two from the tips of the outer outriggers to the ground.
There were four of these masts, each at each corner of the building and the four pick-up points at the roof were tied together with four bowstring trusses. The 3D model included "members" that represented the five sets of cables at each mast.
The problem was that we needed to model the initial tension in the cables such that, at the dead load only condition, the four pick up points would be set at the intended elevation.
A preliminary consultant who had also modeled this roof had indicated that to solve the problem, a long-term trial and error approach would be needed to get the "correct" tension values. Each model run back then (this was the 1980's with slow PC's) took about 3 to 5 hours.
Instead, we put together a stiffness matrix via spreadsheet, and "solved" the problem (basically the no. of equations = the no. of unknowns) and we found the required initial tension in each of the five cables - set it in the model and voila - the four pick up points ended up at the correct elevations!
We were pretty impressed with ourselves - I marched into my bosses office and told him we'd just shaved three weeks of trial and error analysis down to 4 hours and we were taking the day off. Surprisingly he agreed and off we went.
This involved five sets of cables - one from the roof up to the top of the high mast, two from the top of the mast to the the tips of the two outer outriggers, and two from the tips of the outer outriggers to the ground.
There were four of these masts, each at each corner of the building and the four pick-up points at the roof were tied together with four bowstring trusses. The 3D model included "members" that represented the five sets of cables at each mast.
The problem was that we needed to model the initial tension in the cables such that, at the dead load only condition, the four pick up points would be set at the intended elevation.
A preliminary consultant who had also modeled this roof had indicated that to solve the problem, a long-term trial and error approach would be needed to get the "correct" tension values. Each model run back then (this was the 1980's with slow PC's) took about 3 to 5 hours.
Instead, we put together a stiffness matrix via spreadsheet, and "solved" the problem (basically the no. of equations = the no. of unknowns) and we found the required initial tension in each of the five cables - set it in the model and voila - the four pick up points ended up at the correct elevations!
We were pretty impressed with ourselves - I marched into my bosses office and told him we'd just shaved three weeks of trial and error analysis down to 4 hours and we were taking the day off. Surprisingly he agreed and off we went.
SlideRuleEra
Structural
sughew - About your first question... Been innovative? I would like to think so.
Second question... Why? The short answer is because it makes sense-just like JAE's example. But there is more to it than that... a description in today's terms might be a combination of "thinking outside the box" and "multitasking" - it is a way "doing business" that can become second nature. I had the good fortune to work as a Development Mechanical Engineer (as in R&D) for my first engineering job. Take an idea that has been shown to have potential and turn it into something practical, using your own initiative. Information (from other fields) that may seem unrelated may be valuable to accomplish this. I have never forgotten what I learned in that first four years, and try to apply those concepts everyday.
Third question... How? Same as Question #2, by making sure that the innovation makes sense (technical, economic, common, etc.) AND with a certain amount of luck - you have got to be in a job where can "make it happen". This could be by writing an innovative technical specification or making a top-level management decision. The ability to speak and write clearly and accurately is essential (to be able to explain your innovation to others).
If are interested in a career in engineering (as opposed to moving into management), and you can master these concepts, over time, you should get the opportunity to participate in some very interesting projects - all because you have developed a reputation as someone who can "solve the difficult problems".
Best Wishes
![[reading]](/data/assets/smilies/reading.gif "[reading] [reading]")
Second question... Why? The short answer is because it makes sense-just like JAE's example. But there is more to it than that... a description in today's terms might be a combination of "thinking outside the box" and "multitasking" - it is a way "doing business" that can become second nature. I had the good fortune to work as a Development Mechanical Engineer (as in R&D) for my first engineering job. Take an idea that has been shown to have potential and turn it into something practical, using your own initiative. Information (from other fields) that may seem unrelated may be valuable to accomplish this. I have never forgotten what I learned in that first four years, and try to apply those concepts everyday.
Third question... How? Same as Question #2, by making sure that the innovation makes sense (technical, economic, common, etc.) AND with a certain amount of luck - you have got to be in a job where can "make it happen". This could be by writing an innovative technical specification or making a top-level management decision. The ability to speak and write clearly and accurately is essential (to be able to explain your innovation to others).
If are interested in a career in engineering (as opposed to moving into management), and you can master these concepts, over time, you should get the opportunity to participate in some very interesting projects - all because you have developed a reputation as someone who can "solve the difficult problems".
Best Wishes
johnsmith2
Mechanical
Why we need to be innovative, because we need to design a new product every few years in order to keep the sale grow. As you know that, China, India or some asian countries, they are no longer a copy cat. If american need to stand in the top level of engineering, innovative is the only choice. I found some companies in US, they already cut the expense in R&D, and outsource to other countries. This is bad in the long term. In my company, the upper-level management keeps R&D in US, because they don't trust people in that countries. We could keep our drawings confidential, prevent someone steal and sell to our competitors.
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1
- #6
JamesBarlow
Mechanical
I would say I have been very inovative at times.
I was publicly recognized on several occasions at a previous employer for my work being very inovative and creative.
My inovation/creation always comes in the form of "Thinking Outside The Box".
The process from me is always the same. I have a problem to solve and I can't get it. I give up for a while and sometime after, when I'm really tired and doing something that requires little thought, like painting or driving down the highway, I see it.
The See It part is hard to describe to non-dyslexics but my mind wanders a lot while doing rote type tasks, like I'm watching a movie, and I will see the solution.
The solution, for me, has always been a far departure from the original idea or anything else I was able to come up with durring regular business hours.
I don't know if that answers your question or not but this thread should give you an idea of how creatives work.
I was publicly recognized on several occasions at a previous employer for my work being very inovative and creative.
My inovation/creation always comes in the form of "Thinking Outside The Box".
The process from me is always the same. I have a problem to solve and I can't get it. I give up for a while and sometime after, when I'm really tired and doing something that requires little thought, like painting or driving down the highway, I see it.
The See It part is hard to describe to non-dyslexics but my mind wanders a lot while doing rote type tasks, like I'm watching a movie, and I will see the solution.
The solution, for me, has always been a far departure from the original idea or anything else I was able to come up with durring regular business hours.
I don't know if that answers your question or not but this thread should give you an idea of how creatives work.
EngJW
Mechanical
- Feb 25, 2003
- 682
When I was in high school, engineering was one of the choices offered to me that I had to choose from. One of the requirements listed was that you had to be creative. But I couldn't paint a picture, write a poem, or sing a song, and I knew I was no Thomas Edison. Eventually I became a lab technician and found out the engineers were not much different than me so I went back to college.
I'm still not innovative but the job doesn't require it. You just have to get acquainted with all facets of a problem, know what resources are available, and then find the best way to put it all together. Maybe that's innovative. I don't know. My wife can't do it, at least.
I'm still not innovative but the job doesn't require it. You just have to get acquainted with all facets of a problem, know what resources are available, and then find the best way to put it all together. Maybe that's innovative. I don't know. My wife can't do it, at least.
Good for you!EngJW said:
My experience with the trite "think outside the box" mentality is that most people who espouse that wisdom are usually not aware of where the box is, how big the box is, or what the box is made of. 90% of problem solving is correctly framing the problem.
The vast majority of engineering problems have mundane solutions.
Some corporate cultures are the anthesis of innovation. I am experiencing one now... where the solution is.... "the way we've always done it.." and the answer to any "new" ideas is "... that's not the way we have done (do) it."
The desire to be innovative is lost on my right now. In 6 to 9 months, if the situation doesn't change... I will remove myself from the situation.
Wes C.
------------------------------
When they broke open molecules, they found they were only stuffed with atoms. But when they broke open atoms, they found them stuffed with explosions...
The desire to be innovative is lost on my right now. In 6 to 9 months, if the situation doesn't change... I will remove myself from the situation.
Wes C.
------------------------------
When they broke open molecules, they found they were only stuffed with atoms. But when they broke open atoms, they found them stuffed with explosions...
MikeHalloran
Mechanical
I spend a lot of time measuring the box, observing and modeling its behavior, and literally or mathematically pushing on it, trying to bend it, or find a weak spot it it, stuff like that. I'd call the process 'exploring the problem space', I guess.
In software engineering, an analogous process of beating on the data to be processed may eventually lead to a revelation of the best way to make code to deal with the data.
Sometimes the revelation never comes. Sometimes it comes only after you've started working on a solution, exploring at least one corner of the solution space. Sometimes it comes only after putting the problem aside for a while, which I've found to helpful when you're not making any progress.
As often as not, if a revelation comes at all, it comes in a dream. Sometimes you just have a dream, and can't make sense of it when you wake; this is different.
I've been lucky to work in small operations, or small parts of big ones, where it didn't take a bushel of paperwork or hours of meetings to turn a revelation into a reality, or at least a prototype of reality. Just ask the right people in the right way, and things happen.
The last really great one was a stupefyingly simple solution to a longstanding problem. I just put it in a design to be produced for a customer, and answered the usual "what the hell is this?" questions from the production crew along the way.
It was just about ready to pack for shipment when the VP rushed into the office, shouting "Who in the HELL thought THAT up?", which was his way of saying, "Thanks! Great Job!" It became a semi- standard part of our product line from then on. I was quite proud of it. Both the innovation, and his reaction. He had been working in that shop since the age of eight, and had never seen anything like it; I was quite new to the business.
Things change. He's gone. I'm quite new to a different business now.
Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA
In software engineering, an analogous process of beating on the data to be processed may eventually lead to a revelation of the best way to make code to deal with the data.
Sometimes the revelation never comes. Sometimes it comes only after you've started working on a solution, exploring at least one corner of the solution space. Sometimes it comes only after putting the problem aside for a while, which I've found to helpful when you're not making any progress.
As often as not, if a revelation comes at all, it comes in a dream. Sometimes you just have a dream, and can't make sense of it when you wake; this is different.
I've been lucky to work in small operations, or small parts of big ones, where it didn't take a bushel of paperwork or hours of meetings to turn a revelation into a reality, or at least a prototype of reality. Just ask the right people in the right way, and things happen.
The last really great one was a stupefyingly simple solution to a longstanding problem. I just put it in a design to be produced for a customer, and answered the usual "what the hell is this?" questions from the production crew along the way.
It was just about ready to pack for shipment when the VP rushed into the office, shouting "Who in the HELL thought THAT up?", which was his way of saying, "Thanks! Great Job!" It became a semi- standard part of our product line from then on. I was quite proud of it. Both the innovation, and his reaction. He had been working in that shop since the age of eight, and had never seen anything like it; I was quite new to the business.
Things change. He's gone. I'm quite new to a different business now.
Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA
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1
- #14
Being innovative isn't a natural human trait and you'll find it in pretty near everyone, in anyone at all.
Of course engineers may be more overtly innovative than anyone else simply because their jobs demand it of them or highlights that aspect of their work.
That's who/what people are, but engineers most of all.
So "Innovative" I suppose here has to also mean novel and unusual.
So what can I add? Yes I'm innovative, more innovative than many, less than others but for what advantage? Personal satisfaction? Yes, but that doesn't put food on the table (or more new shoes in the "significant others" shoe closet).
The real questions are:
Why doesn't industry exploit or encourage innovation better?
Why does it seem as if industry punishes people for being creative or sends them messages saying: "Don't bother,there's nothing in it it for you" ("It's not your job!" is the most surprising of all)
Why do so few companies have effective "ideas" schemes and why are they so poorly rewarded/incentivised?(or even, any scheme at all)
Don't make the mistake of thinking that engineers think and technicians/workers only do. Of course special skills are needed for certain solutions but how much engineering is actually involved in the actual solution concept? How much of our innovation is actually engineering anyway?
Everyone thinks, everyone solves problems, not everyone gets rewards that encourage this.
Chances are that when you've been confronted with a problem with a machine or a process that you will find that the guys who operate the machine probably knew the/an answer long before you arrived.
It's a problem they've been facing day in and day out. The problem is it isn't their job to fix the problem.
Indeed, in some companies no one would accept their solution anyway...
Now how many of you can say they haven't had that experience?
Actally I would suggest that the more innovative or inventive you are, ultimately the less satsified you will become because industry just doesn't feed or reward the way it should. At some point you may have to cross that line between being innovative (doing a job well) and inventive (out on your own and risking all).
JMW
Of course engineers may be more overtly innovative than anyone else simply because their jobs demand it of them or highlights that aspect of their work.
That's who/what people are, but engineers most of all.
So "Innovative" I suppose here has to also mean novel and unusual.
So what can I add? Yes I'm innovative, more innovative than many, less than others but for what advantage? Personal satisfaction? Yes, but that doesn't put food on the table (or more new shoes in the "significant others" shoe closet).
The real questions are:
Why doesn't industry exploit or encourage innovation better?
Why does it seem as if industry punishes people for being creative or sends them messages saying: "Don't bother,there's nothing in it it for you" ("It's not your job!" is the most surprising of all)
Why do so few companies have effective "ideas" schemes and why are they so poorly rewarded/incentivised?(or even, any scheme at all)
Don't make the mistake of thinking that engineers think and technicians/workers only do. Of course special skills are needed for certain solutions but how much engineering is actually involved in the actual solution concept? How much of our innovation is actually engineering anyway?
Everyone thinks, everyone solves problems, not everyone gets rewards that encourage this.
Chances are that when you've been confronted with a problem with a machine or a process that you will find that the guys who operate the machine probably knew the/an answer long before you arrived.
It's a problem they've been facing day in and day out. The problem is it isn't their job to fix the problem.
Indeed, in some companies no one would accept their solution anyway...
Now how many of you can say they haven't had that experience?
Actally I would suggest that the more innovative or inventive you are, ultimately the less satsified you will become because industry just doesn't feed or reward the way it should. At some point you may have to cross that line between being innovative (doing a job well) and inventive (out on your own and risking all).
JMW
This thinking of "outside of the box" mentality is too much of the time false. It's management who form the BOX in the first place. One has to convince the management that (your) idea is worthy and viable. Dont fool yourself, unless you have full control of development you are in the BOX forever.
Wishing you well
Best regards
pennpoint
Wishing you well
Best regards
pennpoint
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