Seems ridiculous, but who knows?
Tek-Tips is the largest IT community on the Internet today!
Members share and learn making Tek-Tips Forums the best source of peer-reviewed technical information on the Internet!
-
Congratulations TugboatEng on being selected by the Eng-Tips community for having the most helpful posts in the forums last week. Way to Go!
Has anyone had a serious look at this: Burning saline to generate heat
- Thread starter tinfoil
- Start date
Follow-up to OP:
Dr. Rustum Roy, an internationally respected Penn State University professor, "held a demonstration last week at the university's Materials Research Laboratory in State College, to confirm what he'd witnessed weeks before in an Erie lab.
"It's true, it works," Dr. Roy said. "Everyone told me, 'Rustum, don't be fooled. He put electrodes in there.' "
But there are no electrodes and no gimmicks, he said.
Dr. Roy said the salt water isn't burning per se, despite appearances. The radio frequency actually weakens bonds holding together the constituents of salt water -- sodium chloride, hydrogen and oxygen -- and releases the hydrogen, which, once ignited, burns continuously when exposed to the RF energy field.
...
Dr. Roy's tests on the machine last week provided further evidence that the process is releasing and burning hydrogen from the water. Tests on different water solutions and concentrations produced various temperatures and flame colors."
Molecular bonds naturally vibrate as a function of temperature, i.e., the atoms oscillate closer & farther. Whereas it takes lots of energy to thermally dissociate a water molecule; it's conceivable that the right RF could add to the natural molecular vibration, therby lowering the activation energy for dissociation. Although I think an extremely high frequency would be required. We'll surely hear more about this if it actually works, as the DOE is considering funding Dr. Roy's work.
Dr. Rustum Roy, an internationally respected Penn State University professor, "held a demonstration last week at the university's Materials Research Laboratory in State College, to confirm what he'd witnessed weeks before in an Erie lab.
"It's true, it works," Dr. Roy said. "Everyone told me, 'Rustum, don't be fooled. He put electrodes in there.' "
But there are no electrodes and no gimmicks, he said.
Dr. Roy said the salt water isn't burning per se, despite appearances. The radio frequency actually weakens bonds holding together the constituents of salt water -- sodium chloride, hydrogen and oxygen -- and releases the hydrogen, which, once ignited, burns continuously when exposed to the RF energy field.
...
Dr. Roy's tests on the machine last week provided further evidence that the process is releasing and burning hydrogen from the water. Tests on different water solutions and concentrations produced various temperatures and flame colors."
Molecular bonds naturally vibrate as a function of temperature, i.e., the atoms oscillate closer & farther. Whereas it takes lots of energy to thermally dissociate a water molecule; it's conceivable that the right RF could add to the natural molecular vibration, therby lowering the activation energy for dissociation. Although I think an extremely high frequency would be required. We'll surely hear more about this if it actually works, as the DOE is considering funding Dr. Roy's work.
I said it earlier, the radio frequency generator was consuming more enery than the stirling engine could produce.
kenvlatch, Like I said, you gotta reverse the whole thing to get the aluminum back, and I can gaurentee the second law will get back at you in a big way on this one.
kenvlatch, Like I said, you gotta reverse the whole thing to get the aluminum back, and I can gaurentee the second law will get back at you in a big way on this one.
From the video at thread633-197225
I noticed that the 'burning saltwater' has a nice yellow sodium color (whereas hydrogen has a colorless flame). So, trying to figure out the heat of combustion of Na+ in the saltwater.
Na+ --> Na (metal) -[Δ]Hsolution = +240.1 kJ/mol
Na(solid, metal) --> Na (liq) [Δ]Hfusion = +2.6
Na(liq) + 1/2 O2 --> 1/2 Na2O 1/2 [Δ]Hformation, Na2O = -206.5 kJ/mol*
So net is +36.2 kJ/mol, i.e., endothermic.
*Unfortunately, I only have Na2O data up to 1000 K; properly, should include Na(liq) --> Na (g) [Δ]Hvap = +97.6 kJ/mol, but this cancels as it makes [Δ]Hformation, Na2O more exothermic.
Any other ideas on energy contributions [& note that Cl oxides don't have exothermic [Δ]Hf's]?
I noticed that the 'burning saltwater' has a nice yellow sodium color (whereas hydrogen has a colorless flame). So, trying to figure out the heat of combustion of Na+ in the saltwater.
Na+ --> Na (metal) -[Δ]Hsolution = +240.1 kJ/mol
Na(solid, metal) --> Na (liq) [Δ]Hfusion = +2.6
Na(liq) + 1/2 O2 --> 1/2 Na2O 1/2 [Δ]Hformation, Na2O = -206.5 kJ/mol*
So net is +36.2 kJ/mol, i.e., endothermic.
*Unfortunately, I only have Na2O data up to 1000 K; properly, should include Na(liq) --> Na (g) [Δ]Hvap = +97.6 kJ/mol, but this cancels as it makes [Δ]Hformation, Na2O more exothermic.
Any other ideas on energy contributions [& note that Cl oxides don't have exothermic [Δ]Hf's]?
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
- Question
- Locked
- Question
- Question
- Locked
- Question