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Good drwaing tool for PFDs and MFDs 3
- Thread starter MariusChE
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My comments may be more appropriate for another forum but regarding Excel, I've never been able to manipulate Excel to do produce to-scale drawings worth the effort but I think Excel works great for PFDs. Besides the drawing aspect, it also allows you a way to document the basis (backup calculations) for your PFD all in one file.
If you want to try Excel, I would suggest setting up a template file for your drawings based on your desired paper output (letter or ledger, portrait or landscape, etc).
Set your row height and column width so that you produce a square of small size on your template, that way you get an on-screen grid to work with and can use the snap to grid feature in the drawing menu to help keep everything in line. As with most PFDs, you could include a heavy border to indicate the limits of your drawing field.
If you want to display numbers in cells with the small grid size, you will probably need to setup the cell format to either merge cells or use the center across cells feature. Merge cells may be the most direct but it can cause problems if you need to edit a row or column and try to select a row or column that does not include all of the merged cells. For that reason, I prefer using the center across feature along with other alignment codes.
Besides a template drawing area, you can also create standard images that you can copy and paste without having to recreate them each time.
Of course you have to have Excel to begin with and it will take time to get proficient at using it but that is needed with any new software.
If you want to try Excel, I would suggest setting up a template file for your drawings based on your desired paper output (letter or ledger, portrait or landscape, etc).
Set your row height and column width so that you produce a square of small size on your template, that way you get an on-screen grid to work with and can use the snap to grid feature in the drawing menu to help keep everything in line. As with most PFDs, you could include a heavy border to indicate the limits of your drawing field.
If you want to display numbers in cells with the small grid size, you will probably need to setup the cell format to either merge cells or use the center across cells feature. Merge cells may be the most direct but it can cause problems if you need to edit a row or column and try to select a row or column that does not include all of the merged cells. For that reason, I prefer using the center across feature along with other alignment codes.
Besides a template drawing area, you can also create standard images that you can copy and paste without having to recreate them each time.
Of course you have to have Excel to begin with and it will take time to get proficient at using it but that is needed with any new software.
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MariusChe, If this is a home/private use try Autocad LT, If a company, try Autocad 2002/2004. If you want a full blown system check with Intergraph.
Btw, you can pickup the symbols packages for P&ID's or PFD's from the ISA at
Hope this helps.
saxon
Btw, you can pickup the symbols packages for P&ID's or PFD's from the ISA at
Hope this helps.
saxon
From my experience, Visio Technical is the best package for this purpose. It is easy to use and its has a good data band of symbols. And yet, its is powerful enough to be "expandable" so that can include calculations within it, call VB or C from it or have it tie into other Microsft Products.
Is possible in Excel - but found after bit of practice that Powerpoint with background set for standard frame is actually quite OK for MFDs etc. Just miss the opportunity to have layers though - can be so useful! I usually build drawing on an A3 size page and reduce to A4 only when printing. Have to make extensive use of connectors and small boxes with no borders or fill to route lines and manage line cross overs. But if was doing lot of drawings on a regular basis would probaly splash out on a proper package!
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Marius, I've got a couple of drawings in Visio that have a number of pieces of equipment, columns, exchangers, pumps, etc. If you want to drop me a line at Testdog2000@yahoo.com, I'll forward you a copy in a couple of weeks when I'm back home, I'm out of town on assignment.
HenrikGroth
Chemical
Microsoft Office Visio 2003 Professional comes with standard symbols for drawing both PFD and P&I diagrams, they are not in the standard edition...
Serif Draw Plus and Serif Page plus are good programs.
My Nephew, somewhat smarter than me, realised you can get earlier versions as free downloads.
An internet serach for "free downlaods Serif" might find it.
Serif have a very good attitude to passing on your old software to new users when you upgrade and you can get some good deals from them direct.
Including TurboCad (version 8, I think for a very low price.
JMW
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My Nephew, somewhat smarter than me, realised you can get earlier versions as free downloads.
An internet serach for "free downlaods Serif" might find it.
Serif have a very good attitude to passing on your old software to new users when you upgrade and you can get some good deals from them direct.
Including TurboCad (version 8, I think for a very low price.
JMW
Eng-Tips: Pro bono publico, by engineers, for engineers.
Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips Fora.
I've used Excel before. It is sufficient for PFDs and as EGT01 said, it provides a basis for the calculations as well. However, I don't know of any freeware available. I would suggest using something like Smartplant. It is expensive, but can be used for all flow sheets. It is available from Integraph. They have a cheaper alternative called Smartsketch. This is similar to AutoCad LT, but unfortunately doesn't have all the relevant symbols as with Visio and Smartplant. Smartplant is intelligent software that will contain all the detailed related data - more useful for P&IDs though.
You might try Open Office. It is a freeware suite very similar to MS Office. It has spreadsheet, word processor, presentation, drawing, a dbase modules. You can find out more information at their website:
Cheers...
~NiM
Cheers...
~NiM
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