I am nearing graduation and have started the job hunt. I want to work as a geotechnical engineer. Allot of job postings I am seeing say masters preferred or required. I am not against getting my masters degree but I always thought it would be better to figure out the direction you are going to go with your career then get your masters. I also got through my BS with no debt and am not set on the idea of taking on debt for a masters. Is a masters important in geotech? Should I still apply to ones that require a masters? I will have a BS Civil Engineering with a certificate in geotech. Also a year of internship experience in water resources.
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Geotechnical Engineering: Straight to Masters or Start Working?
- Thread starter JDC320
- Start date
abusementpark
Structural
I would see if they would let you work part-time while you pursue a master's. It really gives you a good perspective to learn something about the real world while you are enhancing your theoretical background.
JDC320,
I was in a very similar situation when I graduated (wanted to be a geotech and no B.S. debt). My decision was to go directly to grad school but I did work for a geotech company for the summer between my BS and MS. It was a good mix of experience between being on a drill rig and in the office doing slope stability, settlement calcs for highway embankments, etc. I had an teachning assistant and university scholarship so there was no debt w/ the MS which did make the choice easier.
When I graduated I went back to the same company and now looking back 20 years my feeling is I had a much better technical understanding of the theory than the engineers w/ 3-4 years experience but no MS so for me it was the right choice. I don't know if I felt that way at the time but hindsight does help.
Like anything else there are people w/o an MS who are excellent geotechs and those with an MS who have no practial understanding even after many years of practice. In my opinion, most geotechs w/ an MS (or MEng) understand the soil behaviour better than those w/out an advanced degree, especially initially.
Good luck with your decision.
Patrick
I was in a very similar situation when I graduated (wanted to be a geotech and no B.S. debt). My decision was to go directly to grad school but I did work for a geotech company for the summer between my BS and MS. It was a good mix of experience between being on a drill rig and in the office doing slope stability, settlement calcs for highway embankments, etc. I had an teachning assistant and university scholarship so there was no debt w/ the MS which did make the choice easier.
When I graduated I went back to the same company and now looking back 20 years my feeling is I had a much better technical understanding of the theory than the engineers w/ 3-4 years experience but no MS so for me it was the right choice. I don't know if I felt that way at the time but hindsight does help.
Like anything else there are people w/o an MS who are excellent geotechs and those with an MS who have no practial understanding even after many years of practice. In my opinion, most geotechs w/ an MS (or MEng) understand the soil behaviour better than those w/out an advanced degree, especially initially.
Good luck with your decision.
Patrick
Very well put dig1, sound words.
I remember in the first few years of my career continually going over this issue in my own mind, should i have stayed on and done a MSc, had i gained an industry advantage by not doing so, i mulled t over time and again. Fortunately I was offered the opportunity by my company to do a part-time MSc, courses run at the weekends, and continue in the workplace. in my eyes at that time it was the best of both worlds.
Now 8 years on i can honestly say I am none the wiser as to the 'correct' approach but i certainly care about it a lot less! There are obviously pro's and con's to both approaches and in my opinion it is a personal choice that can only be made by the individual. In my experience the 'good' engineers have a well-rounded skill set, not too academic but with a sound technical footing.
The excellent engineers are the ones who recognise their weaknesses and work on developing them. Maybe you didnt do a MSc and feel your technical knowledge is not to the standard it should be to develop, do some short courses, get some tuition from your colleagues and peers and throw yourself into work that scares you, challenges you and forces you to develop (this is where the need for supportive managers comes in!).
Something else worth remembering is that while the market is depressed there are more engineers out there looking for work and, rightly or wrongly, getting that first job will likely be about differentiation from the candidate lining up next to you. A good manager should be looking at more than just your academic background but its not always the case. Dependant on where you are working and how the industry is doing currently it may well be that the employer has the 'luxury' or been given the direction to rule people out without an MSc?
So to summarise this wayward ramble (apologies!) only you can decide. You seem to have the right approach, having internship experience is highly attractive to employers (in the UK its quite rare actually). Good luck and keep an eye out on this website, its as good as any masters course
I remember in the first few years of my career continually going over this issue in my own mind, should i have stayed on and done a MSc, had i gained an industry advantage by not doing so, i mulled t over time and again. Fortunately I was offered the opportunity by my company to do a part-time MSc, courses run at the weekends, and continue in the workplace. in my eyes at that time it was the best of both worlds.
Now 8 years on i can honestly say I am none the wiser as to the 'correct' approach but i certainly care about it a lot less! There are obviously pro's and con's to both approaches and in my opinion it is a personal choice that can only be made by the individual. In my experience the 'good' engineers have a well-rounded skill set, not too academic but with a sound technical footing.
The excellent engineers are the ones who recognise their weaknesses and work on developing them. Maybe you didnt do a MSc and feel your technical knowledge is not to the standard it should be to develop, do some short courses, get some tuition from your colleagues and peers and throw yourself into work that scares you, challenges you and forces you to develop (this is where the need for supportive managers comes in!).
Something else worth remembering is that while the market is depressed there are more engineers out there looking for work and, rightly or wrongly, getting that first job will likely be about differentiation from the candidate lining up next to you. A good manager should be looking at more than just your academic background but its not always the case. Dependant on where you are working and how the industry is doing currently it may well be that the employer has the 'luxury' or been given the direction to rule people out without an MSc?
So to summarise this wayward ramble (apologies!) only you can decide. You seem to have the right approach, having internship experience is highly attractive to employers (in the UK its quite rare actually). Good luck and keep an eye out on this website, its as good as any masters course
FixedEarth
Geotechnical
I would wait at least three years and see if you actually enjoy geotechnical engineering. There are a number of tools that you need and most of these require real life experience and few years each in field testing, lab testing and office number crunching.
Say you went for Master's and when you graduate you accept analysis/design position. How would you be able to catch an out of place lab test value if you haven't done lab work? Another scenario, you go to the field for a footing observation and find soft Clay with the crew looking to you and concrete trucks 2 hrs away. How would you solve it without field experience? By going in now with your B.S.C.E. you can ask for more drilling experience, more lab time and more earthwork and foundation observations.
Also don't be bashful about changing firms at this early stage so as to get well rounded experience. Then after two or three years you can decide what school to attend and what extra classes to take. About the same time, you will have enough experience to sit for your P.E. license.
My two tips for you: 1- Buy older geotechnical publications and read them daily. 2- When you go for your Master's take healthy dose of structural classes like Advanced Concrete, Bridge Design, Shoring & Underpinning, etc. Most complex projects require close interaction with structural engineers and the more of their language that you speak, the better understanding you will have of soil-structure effects of your project.
Look at the great geotechnical engineers who were also well versed in structural design - Peck, Teng, Zeevaert, Bowles, Tomlinson, Cernica, Fellenius, etc. and see how it helped them. Good luck.
Say you went for Master's and when you graduate you accept analysis/design position. How would you be able to catch an out of place lab test value if you haven't done lab work? Another scenario, you go to the field for a footing observation and find soft Clay with the crew looking to you and concrete trucks 2 hrs away. How would you solve it without field experience? By going in now with your B.S.C.E. you can ask for more drilling experience, more lab time and more earthwork and foundation observations.
Also don't be bashful about changing firms at this early stage so as to get well rounded experience. Then after two or three years you can decide what school to attend and what extra classes to take. About the same time, you will have enough experience to sit for your P.E. license.
My two tips for you: 1- Buy older geotechnical publications and read them daily. 2- When you go for your Master's take healthy dose of structural classes like Advanced Concrete, Bridge Design, Shoring & Underpinning, etc. Most complex projects require close interaction with structural engineers and the more of their language that you speak, the better understanding you will have of soil-structure effects of your project.
Look at the great geotechnical engineers who were also well versed in structural design - Peck, Teng, Zeevaert, Bowles, Tomlinson, Cernica, Fellenius, etc. and see how it helped them. Good luck.
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- #6
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- #7
well u can start by definitely not saying im interested in getting a masters but dont want to pay for it! lol
however what is a perfactly valid line of questioning is, where does the company stand on providing continuing professional development (CPD)? The Institue for Chartered Engineers places huge credence on engineers CPD as do most UK based accrediting groups (CIWEM, CIOB, BGS etc).
that line of questioning shows you are keen and focused on developing into the best engineer you can be which of course is to the benefit of the company. in more recent times where times are tough training budgest have been slashed but its certainly an acceptable question to ask
however what is a perfactly valid line of questioning is, where does the company stand on providing continuing professional development (CPD)? The Institue for Chartered Engineers places huge credence on engineers CPD as do most UK based accrediting groups (CIWEM, CIOB, BGS etc).
that line of questioning shows you are keen and focused on developing into the best engineer you can be which of course is to the benefit of the company. in more recent times where times are tough training budgest have been slashed but its certainly an acceptable question to ask
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