fuselage parts

[aceantennagirl]

I have a client who needs to perform bird strike testing. We did design work for them and now we are going to help them coordinate the bird strike test. Where do you buy fuselage parts for testing? I am in need of an A320 fuselage.

 

[berkshire]

I would suggest Trade A plane Magazine

http://www.tappublishing.com/static/trade-a-plane.html

B.E.

 

[rb1957]

sorry, but why do you need a fuselage ? for bird strike ?? a wing, yes; and empennage, yes;

i'd talk to airbus (to find out who's scrapping hulls), or google "used airbus parts"

Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati

 

[WKTaylor]

aceantennagirl ... additional bird strike testing for an already tested acft?

Airbus should be able to advise where their bird-test facilities/cockpits/vendors are located.

Most transparancy/windshield manufacturers will have [or know where to go for] cockpits used in birdstrike tests. Find out wwhich company makes AirBuss A320 windshields.

NOTE. IF You are testing new windows/windshields and/or heaters these vendors may clam-up. IF installing new antennas or sensors [IR,UV, low-light, mircrowave, etc] on the cockpit or nose, then probably no problem with any of the transparency vendors cooperating.

----------------------------------------
rb1957 ... The Red Green Show ?? (wink)

Regards, Wil Taylor

Trust - But Verify!

We believe to be true what we prefer to be true.

For those who believe, no proof is required; for those who cannot believe, no proof is possible.

 

[rb1957]

reading the OP's handle, maybe they're doing birdstrike on an antenna ?

@will, "if the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy" ... i guess i'm 0-2 ?

Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati

 

[WKTaylor]

RB...

My take on this...

"If You're not young/good looking, then at least try to be memorable"

Regards, Wil Taylor

Trust - But Verify!

We believe to be true what we prefer to be true.

For those who believe, no proof is required; for those who cannot believe, no proof is possible.

 

[rb1957]

getting back on track ... if you are doing a birdstrike on an antenna, it should be sufficient to fab up something similar to the A320 fuselage, without getting a piece from scrap. mind you, a scrap piece might be cheaper/easier ...

must be a big antenna if you're worried about bird strike ?

Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati

 

[WKTaylor]

Often windshields have much greater birdstrike resistance than surrounding cockpit metal structure, for obvious reasons.

There have been many cases where large birds penetrated the nose skins/substructure, or pressure bulkhead [after penetrating the radome and radar]... and the crew gets showered with "soft/foamy/feathery" debris.

I would imagine that hail and lightning strikes could also be a significant problem.

Regards, Wil Taylor

Trust - But Verify!

We believe to be true what we prefer to be true.

For those who believe, no proof is required; for those who cannot believe, no proof is possible.

 

[aceantennagirl]

Thanks for all of your help and suggestions. It is for an antenna under a "large" radome on the top of the fuselage. An actual fuselage piece would be a much better choice and probably cheaper in the long run if I can find one.

 

[dwallace1971]

I think there's a "graveyard" out in Mojave California.

"On the human scale, the laws of Newtonian Physics are non-negotiable"

 

[WKTaylor]

In general the upper fuselage, past the cockpit crown, is rarely [if ever] struck by birds.

Reason for this is simple: acft fly at +body-angle of attack [nose up] at low altitudes, low airspeeds, so that the crown areas are "shaded" from bird strikes by the cockpit.

low altitudes = typical range for large birds.
Low air speeds = Typical operation environments at low altitude controlled airspace

Upper crown strikes could only occur at low altitudes, high airspeeds, when body angle of attack is "0" or below (-)0 [nose down].

An example of this might be the Navy P-8 [based on 737]: aircraft is flown at low level and relatively high airspeeds over the ocean during it's maritime surveillance mission.

Obviously lower body [belly] installations are more vulnerable that upper crown installations [except lightning and hail].

Has this aspect been discussed/evaluated with Your client?

Regards, Wil Taylor

Trust - But Verify!

We believe to be true what we prefer to be true.

For those who believe, no proof is required; for those who cannot believe, no proof is possible.

 

[KENAT]

The Mojabe graveyard is relatively small, I drive past it regularly. Not sure I've seen any A320 family from a distrance.

Posting guidelines faq731-376

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

(probably not aimed specifically at you)
What is Engineering anyway: faq1088-1484​

 

[rb1957]

will, the question regards birdstrike on the radome, the fuselage is "only" a test fixture. radomes on the upper fuselage are more problematic than those on the lower fuse (which can be said to "depart the airplane without jeopardising continued safe flight") ... if an upper radome "departs the airplane" it could easily impact the empennage, wih dire consequences.

i'd suggest designing a blow-out panel to prevent over-pressurisation of the radome if/when punctured by a bird

pls, let me know when you do the test ! or at least post video !!

Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati

 

[ewh]

Just remember to thaw the bird first (if recieved frozen). ;-)

“Know the rules well, so you can break them effectively.”
-Dalai Lama XIV

 

[dwallace1971]

KENAT,
We have an A320 fwd fuselage and I'm pretty sure that's where we got it.

"On the human scale, the laws of Newtonian Physics are non-negotiable"

 

[KENAT]

Hmm, maybe I need to brush up on my A/C recognition then or perhaps it was just too far off and I was keeping my eyes on the road.

Posting guidelines faq731-376

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

(probably not aimed specifically at you)
What is Engineering anyway: faq1088-1484​

 

[WKTaylor]

RB1957..

Improper installation/mod, mechanical [hail, maintenance stand, etc], corrosion, fatigue or lightning damage would be 99.9999% reasons for crown antenna/radome damage/failures.

Bird strike? Doubtful: unless there is an aspect exposed in typical flight attitudes where birds could be realistically encountered, such as far forward, high crown. A tall blade could be an exception.

Ice-shedding, hail strikes, corona arcing, etc at cruise attitudes are more likely than bird strikes.

In this case keep the quail frozen ...

Regards, Wil Taylor

Trust - But Verify!

We believe to be true what we prefer to be true.

For those who believe, no proof is required; for those who cannot believe, no proof is possible.

 

[rb1957]

birdstrike is significant below 8,000', ie take-off and landing (not cruise).

it might well not be likely, ice acreation and (possibly more imporant) ice shedding are other concerns, but you need to have an answer when they ask "and what happens if a bird strike happens ? how do you demonstrate compliance with 25.571e(1) ?" saying "it shouldn't happen" won't get you far.

i'm curious that this is for "an antenna under a "large" radome" ? is the concern that the bird will puncture the radome, and then impact the antenna with sufficent force to damage the fuselage under the antenna ? that sounds a little far fetched to me (possibly "extremely improbable") ... and Very hard to show on test; you need to get the bird to hit the antenna ? i know some bird strike tests show unexpected results ... once, firing a bird at a wing/fueslage fairing, the damned thing punctured the fairing (as expected) but then broke a small fuel pipe buried under some structure (for protection !) .... i reckon you can never predic where the bird will go, except that it'll go where you don't want to !

Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati

 

[aceantennagirl]

Improbable or not - sometimes logic and engineering analysis and long flight history with no incidents aren't enough - and that is what we are facing. So - we are preparing for the test. Who was the contact in the Mojave desert?

 

[rb1957]

i agree, but you are assessing an antenna inside a radome ? so you need the bird to impact the antenna after penetrating the radome ??

Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati