I recently graduated from college in May and could not find a job right out of college due to my lack of experience. I finally found a good place that said they didn't have any openings for a full time engineer, but they could put me on as a co-op. The first day I started one of the engineers put in his two weeks notice and they gave me his job along with the co-op stuff (bill of material changes, etc.), but I am still classified as a co-op with no health insurance or job security. Everyone here thinks I should be put on full time, but I don't know how long I should wait before I ask. I've only been here for three months. I don't really care about the pay, I just need insurance and job security.
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Full Time Position 2
- Thread starter tomd3583
- Start date
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1
- #3
CorBlimeyLimey
Mechanical
Probationary periods vary from company to company.Some have 60 days, others have 6 months. However, 3 months is plenty of time for your company to have made a decision about your competence & suitability for the job(s) you have been performing.
You should ask for clarification or a decision from your supervisor/boss. If they start to waffle, then you will know they are taking advantage of you and that it's time to start looking for another position.
![[cheers]](/data/assets/smilies/cheers.gif "[cheers] [cheers]")
You should ask for clarification or a decision from your supervisor/boss. If they start to waffle, then you will know they are taking advantage of you and that it's time to start looking for another position.
If you don't ask, you won't get it. What do you have to lose?
Chris
SolidWorks 06 4.1/PDMWorks 06
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 10-27-06)
Chris
SolidWorks 06 4.1/PDMWorks 06
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 10-27-06)
Let your co-op term run its course. At that time, it should be more than timely to negotiate terms for your permanent position.
Temporary posts work both ways. Feel free to keep looking if your employer does not make good (engineer responsibility at co-op pay ad indeterminum).
I had no co-ops due to military reserve obligations. I made up for it by doing contract work. Every contract led to a permanent offer. I waited for the 3rd one to take the hook.
Temporary posts work both ways. Feel free to keep looking if your employer does not make good (engineer responsibility at co-op pay ad indeterminum).
I had no co-ops due to military reserve obligations. I made up for it by doing contract work. Every contract led to a permanent offer. I waited for the 3rd one to take the hook.
I don't know about security (I personally think security is antiquated, but that's just me), but the insurance is very important.
If it were me, as soon as he gave me the engineer's job, I would have asked to be full time. If I am a co-op, then I do a co-op's job because that is what I am paid to do. If I am full time engineer, then I do a full time engineer's job because that is what I am paid to do.
"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?
If it were me, as soon as he gave me the engineer's job, I would have asked to be full time. If I am a co-op, then I do a co-op's job because that is what I am paid to do. If I am full time engineer, then I do a full time engineer's job because that is what I am paid to do.
"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?
Being a full-time engineer only gives you infinitesimally more job security than a coop. Most likely, they are trying you out before they commit and they will probably keep trying you out for the term of your coop unless you ask. I have found that the squeaky wheel gets the grease and almost all situations, whether it be getting the job, getting a raise/promotion or getting training. It shouldn't hurt to ask about transitioning to the full-time position if they plan to fill it.
Maybe they don't think you are interested?? If you are, ask.
Maybe they don't think you are interested?? If you are, ask.
Just my opinion but....
Does your co-op have a defined duration. If so wait till you are nearing the end of it and ask about being made permanent (unless they are really taking advantage of you in which case ask sooner).
If the co-op didn't have an explicitly defined duration then ask when they'd expect to make a decision on whether to make you permanent and hold them to it.
In either case if you don't get the answer you want be ready to find something else.
Like IRstuff said you should probably have considered this up front but hindsight is always 20:20.
Does your co-op have a defined duration. If so wait till you are nearing the end of it and ask about being made permanent (unless they are really taking advantage of you in which case ask sooner).
If the co-op didn't have an explicitly defined duration then ask when they'd expect to make a decision on whether to make you permanent and hold them to it.
In either case if you don't get the answer you want be ready to find something else.
Like IRstuff said you should probably have considered this up front but hindsight is always 20:20.
If "they" did give you his job then they should have discussed a change in your position at that same time. Did they formally say "you are now responsible for "Joe Blows" stuff now?
Anyway you cut it; if you were given more work and responsibility than you signed up for, a change in terms should be discussed. Why would you wait to discuss after your Co-op period? They have already changed the terms! If you are truly doing more work and have more responsibility then you aren't really working for a good company if they take advantage of you.
Anyway you cut it; if you were given more work and responsibility than you signed up for, a change in terms should be discussed. Why would you wait to discuss after your Co-op period? They have already changed the terms! If you are truly doing more work and have more responsibility then you aren't really working for a good company if they take advantage of you.
- Thread starter
- #10
Thanks for the feedback.
When I started, the guy that was leaving spent his last two weeks teaching me his job. I am in charge of a whole product line along with doing the co-op stuff for another product line. As for the co-op period, they never said that there was a deadline. There is an international co-op who has been here for over a year.
When I started, the guy that was leaving spent his last two weeks teaching me his job. I am in charge of a whole product line along with doing the co-op stuff for another product line. As for the co-op period, they never said that there was a deadline. There is an international co-op who has been here for over a year.
tomd3583,
It sounds to me that your employer is taking advantage of you. You are doing the job of the original "full time" guy, but at a co-op's compensation.
I would ask to have my compensation changed to that of a full time employee. If the company does not agree, I would start looking for an honest employer.
"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?
It sounds to me that your employer is taking advantage of you. You are doing the job of the original "full time" guy, but at a co-op's compensation.
I would ask to have my compensation changed to that of a full time employee. If the company does not agree, I would start looking for an honest employer.
"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?
Senselessticker
Electrical
I agree with Ashereng...It sounds like your company is trying to take advantage of you. I don't know what co-ops get paid these days, but I tend to think is no where near an engineering salary. Also, and I think someone mentioned this above...There's no such thing as "security" in a job...especially engineering.
Even with only a few months of experience in engineering (and even if considered a co-op), finding a full time EE position will not be that difficult.
I suggest talking to your supervisor. If the company does not want to offer you a full time position, then its probably a sign that they are either a) expecting to lay some folks off sometime soon; or b) have some really bad mgt. practices. or c) just don't have budget for an entry level position.
I would talk to your supervisor. If the company does not act quickly to bring you on as a full time engineer, then start looking for another job. Heck...it could be that they just don't like you and are waiting for you to quit without having to "let you go". I don't say that to sound discouraging. Just trying to present possibilities.
Also, do YOU like the job you have? Do you like the company? Do you have faith in your superiors? Where do you see yourself within the company in five years? Do you like where you see yourself?
These are very important factors to consider before taking a full time position if they offer.
And one more thing...don't "settle" for a smaller salary just because you feel that you lack experience. Your first salary will set the stage for a long time! And companies want to pay you as little as they can get away with. As you start to get raises, promotions, etc...it will always be a function of percent increase of your existing salary. Your starting salary can haunt you for awhile if its too low. Guess I started rambling.... sorry.
Sense
Even with only a few months of experience in engineering (and even if considered a co-op), finding a full time EE position will not be that difficult.
I suggest talking to your supervisor. If the company does not want to offer you a full time position, then its probably a sign that they are either a) expecting to lay some folks off sometime soon; or b) have some really bad mgt. practices. or c) just don't have budget for an entry level position.
I would talk to your supervisor. If the company does not act quickly to bring you on as a full time engineer, then start looking for another job. Heck...it could be that they just don't like you and are waiting for you to quit without having to "let you go". I don't say that to sound discouraging. Just trying to present possibilities.
Also, do YOU like the job you have? Do you like the company? Do you have faith in your superiors? Where do you see yourself within the company in five years? Do you like where you see yourself?
These are very important factors to consider before taking a full time position if they offer.
And one more thing...don't "settle" for a smaller salary just because you feel that you lack experience. Your first salary will set the stage for a long time! And companies want to pay you as little as they can get away with. As you start to get raises, promotions, etc...it will always be a function of percent increase of your existing salary. Your starting salary can haunt you for awhile if its too low. Guess I started rambling.... sorry.
Sense
Were you ever really a "co-op?"
From all that I've seen on both sides of the table, a "co-op" is short for a cooperative education student who is on leave from their regular studies but still enrolled in their engineering program. They typically receive a few units for their work assignment and are sponsored by the university. Company's bring the students in for 1 term or 1 year, and that is clearly defined.
Since it sounds like you were hired on after graduation, you are *not* and never have been a co-op, regardless of what they want to call you.
You can be either full-time or part-time. You can be either temporary, probationary, or permanant. You can be either hourly or salaried (exempt or nonexempt). You can be either an employee or a contractor. They do not have complete discretion into which of these various categories you fall. For example, the exempt/nonexempt issue is decided based on guidelines from the Federal Labor Standards.
I know that in California, you cannot be classified as a temporary for more than 1 year. Companies have tried this "perma-temp" approach to keep from paying benefits that they give permanent employees and the courts have ruled it out. I don't know if that's a state law or a federal law.
I think you are clearly being taken advantage of. The problem is, you're not in a strong place to force a change.
You still need to push for it, though. Just do so gently or you risk being terminated with no warning.
Recognize that you're either working for an ignorant employer or a weasely one. Act accordingly cautious.
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How much do YOU owe?
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From all that I've seen on both sides of the table, a "co-op" is short for a cooperative education student who is on leave from their regular studies but still enrolled in their engineering program. They typically receive a few units for their work assignment and are sponsored by the university. Company's bring the students in for 1 term or 1 year, and that is clearly defined.
Since it sounds like you were hired on after graduation, you are *not* and never have been a co-op, regardless of what they want to call you.
You can be either full-time or part-time. You can be either temporary, probationary, or permanant. You can be either hourly or salaried (exempt or nonexempt). You can be either an employee or a contractor. They do not have complete discretion into which of these various categories you fall. For example, the exempt/nonexempt issue is decided based on guidelines from the Federal Labor Standards.
I know that in California, you cannot be classified as a temporary for more than 1 year. Companies have tried this "perma-temp" approach to keep from paying benefits that they give permanent employees and the courts have ruled it out. I don't know if that's a state law or a federal law.
I think you are clearly being taken advantage of. The problem is, you're not in a strong place to force a change.
You still need to push for it, though. Just do so gently or you risk being terminated with no warning.
Recognize that you're either working for an ignorant employer or a weasely one. Act accordingly cautious.
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How much do YOU owe?
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I would think that your situation might be worth a call to the appropriate State and Federal agencies to determine just what the law is.
You might consider the few hundred dollars that it might cost to sit with a labor attorney.
You're always better off to know your rights and theirs *before* you start talking.
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How much do YOU owe?
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You might consider the few hundred dollars that it might cost to sit with a labor attorney.
You're always better off to know your rights and theirs *before* you start talking.
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How much do YOU owe?
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- #16
COEngineeer
Structural
I wouldnt burn bridges if I were you. Talk to your boss, tell him you really want a full time position. If they still dont do anything, just suck it up and keep working there but keep looking for a new job. After a year, at least youll have some experience on your resume to find other job. I rather be a co-op with no insurance than unemployed with no insurance.
Senselessticker
Electrical
I agree with COE...don't burn a bridge. Ask your boss to be honest with you. It could be that the color of money is coming into play as I hinted above.
MedicineEng
Industrial
When you speak with your boss, you better have a plan B, for instance, a potential position somewhere else. Like that you will go to the discussion in another mood.
If he starts "hmmm....","Let me see..." you just tell him that you will speak with him in 2 weeks time. If by then, no answers or again:"hmmm", tell him bye, bye.
If he starts "hmmm....","Let me see..." you just tell him that you will speak with him in 2 weeks time. If by then, no answers or again:"hmmm", tell him bye, bye.
COEngineeer
Structural
Talking to his boss doesnt mean he is goin to lose his coop. Just be honest and tell him you really need healt insurance. Its not like he is asking for 30% raise or something.
SomptingGuy
Automotive
30% eh? Divide my graduate starting salary by my last co-op salary and you get about 1.6. And I was one of the better paid co-ops on my course.
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