I came across this site, where a structural engineer designs for free!!!!
Michael.
Timing has a lot to do with the outcome of a rain dance.
Michael.
Timing has a lot to do with the outcome of a rain dance.
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Free structural engineering! 3
- Thread starter paddingtongreen
- Start date
MiketheEngineer
Structural
A PE from the Dept of State?? Never heard of it!! Don't think so?? Then why am I registered in 42 states???? If I could "buy" just one - don't you thing NCEES and I would be on that??
- Thread starter
- #22
paddingtongreen
Structural
There is a "Verified" button on his profile. It claims to have verified that he has Pennsylvania PE.
Michael.
Timing has a lot to do with the outcome of a rain dance.
Michael.
Timing has a lot to do with the outcome of a rain dance.
They should change the name to JustSueMe. And how do you get away with providing engineering services without identifying yourself or posting your license? Also, if the site is advertising itself as providing engineering services to clients, and getting paid for it, wouldn't it need a certificate of authorization and proof that a licensed engineer is in responsible charge? (That's how it works in my state.)
bridgebuster
Active member
Ron - I'll give it a try but I'm not sure if it'll do any good. There's a lot of legal mumbo-jumbo on their site, but more important, we don't know the name of the PA engineer.
I'll keep everyone updated.
I'll keep everyone updated.
bridgebuster
Active member
Same here.
bridgebuster
Active member
Done. I'll keep everyone posted.
- Thread starter
- #33
paddingtongreen
Structural
Me too.
Michael.
Timing has a lot to do with the outcome of a rain dance.
Michael.
Timing has a lot to do with the outcome of a rain dance.
msquared48
Structural
Let's see... $30.00 for a 5 minute beam size...
That's about $360.00 per hour...
At those rates, it's obvious he's a lawyer!
Mike McCann
MMC Engineering
That's about $360.00 per hour...
At those rates, it's obvious he's a lawyer!
Mike McCann
MMC Engineering
bridgebuster
Active member
Mike - go to that site and click on meet the experts. They do have a lawyer named "psimmons".
msquared48
Structural
Please forgive my ignorance, I've only been in the professional a couple years, but maybe someone could help me out.
Is what he's doing actually illegal?
1) He's not signing and sealing plans
2) He's not providing construction details
3) He's not providing construction drawings that could be used for permit
4) Anyone using the service would probably just make something up if there wasn't a cheap/convenient resource available
5) A couple I the questions I read had lengthy disclaimers about how he hasn't visited the site, has only the information provided by the client, and the client is responsible for the use of the information...
I whole-heartedly agree with all of the negative attention he's getting and fully believe it cheapens the profession, but from a strictly legal standpoint, what law is he violating?
Is what he's doing actually illegal?
1) He's not signing and sealing plans
2) He's not providing construction details
3) He's not providing construction drawings that could be used for permit
4) Anyone using the service would probably just make something up if there wasn't a cheap/convenient resource available
5) A couple I the questions I read had lengthy disclaimers about how he hasn't visited the site, has only the information provided by the client, and the client is responsible for the use of the information...
I whole-heartedly agree with all of the negative attention he's getting and fully believe it cheapens the profession, but from a strictly legal standpoint, what law is he violating?
msquared48
Structural
Like beng licensed in the state where the job is located for starters.
Mike McCann
MMC Engineering
Mike McCann
MMC Engineering
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1
- #39
Structural20036,
A couple of observations on your question:
1. In some states it is illegal to portray yourself as an engineer if you are not licensed in that state (Nevada for example). Even if the project didn't require a licensed engineer to participate, simply promoting yourself as an engineer, or calling yourself a professional engineer, for a project within that state could technically be illegal.
2. Many states have exclusions for various types/sizes of projects - small residential for instance - where a licensed engineer isn't required. In this sense, perhaps they aren't violating any law.
3. There are ethics codes out there that any licensed engineer is expected to follow. These are not simply suggested rules but many times are actually codified into the engineering practice acts of each state. There were some answers I saw on the site that were definitely questionable as to good engineering practice (see the above example by port125). In this case - providing design services for fee when you don't actually have good knowledge of the structural conditions, loadings, etc. is not practicing to the standard of care.
4. The engineer's first priority is to protect the public health and safety. Item 3 above certainly doesn't do that.
A couple of observations on your question:
1. In some states it is illegal to portray yourself as an engineer if you are not licensed in that state (Nevada for example). Even if the project didn't require a licensed engineer to participate, simply promoting yourself as an engineer, or calling yourself a professional engineer, for a project within that state could technically be illegal.
2. Many states have exclusions for various types/sizes of projects - small residential for instance - where a licensed engineer isn't required. In this sense, perhaps they aren't violating any law.
3. There are ethics codes out there that any licensed engineer is expected to follow. These are not simply suggested rules but many times are actually codified into the engineering practice acts of each state. There were some answers I saw on the site that were definitely questionable as to good engineering practice (see the above example by port125). In this case - providing design services for fee when you don't actually have good knowledge of the structural conditions, loadings, etc. is not practicing to the standard of care.
4. The engineer's first priority is to protect the public health and safety. Item 3 above certainly doesn't do that.
This rubs me wrong. They may not be in direct violation of any specific canon in either the NSPE or ASCE Ethics Codes that says not to provide advice on-line but I believe that they are not upholding the integrity of the profession or servicing the needs of the client in an ethical manner.
I believe that you could probably make a strong arguement that they are not putting the health, safety, and welfare of the public paramount in their actions in accordance with the first canon of each organization's Ethics codes. Telling someone you can move a post based on the assumption that the engineer (btw, it was probably never actually designed by an engineer anyway if it's residential) probably over designed it initially is not making sure that the safety of the person performing that work or using that structure is the highest priority. What if that post was added after the engineer designed the beam because the beam was failing due to overloading or special circumstances to begin with? What if it wasn't OK to move it...who is going to answer for it?
I suppose you could also make the arguement that they are not accurately displaying their credentials and representing their experience and background...notice you can't get a first/last name to check their license criteria on the website. I believe that this violates the NSPE code under section II. Rules of Practice, number 5. They are stating they are licensed or experienced professionals but not allowing the public to verify this. Someone please correct me if you found a way to verify their license with each state...I could not.
Personally, I know that if I gave this type of advice freely and something happened to a person who followed it, I would feel terrible. And it could easily happen in this situation...after all, it was an 'expert' who answered their question so why shouldn't they follow it!
I believe that you could probably make a strong arguement that they are not putting the health, safety, and welfare of the public paramount in their actions in accordance with the first canon of each organization's Ethics codes. Telling someone you can move a post based on the assumption that the engineer (btw, it was probably never actually designed by an engineer anyway if it's residential) probably over designed it initially is not making sure that the safety of the person performing that work or using that structure is the highest priority. What if that post was added after the engineer designed the beam because the beam was failing due to overloading or special circumstances to begin with? What if it wasn't OK to move it...who is going to answer for it?
I suppose you could also make the arguement that they are not accurately displaying their credentials and representing their experience and background...notice you can't get a first/last name to check their license criteria on the website. I believe that this violates the NSPE code under section II. Rules of Practice, number 5. They are stating they are licensed or experienced professionals but not allowing the public to verify this. Someone please correct me if you found a way to verify their license with each state...I could not.
Personally, I know that if I gave this type of advice freely and something happened to a person who followed it, I would feel terrible. And it could easily happen in this situation...after all, it was an 'expert' who answered their question so why shouldn't they follow it!
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