I have noticed on property which I recently purchased, what looks like different types of foundry slag.....my neighbor has confirmed. Apparently a previous landowner owned a foundry in town. Is there any environmental hazards associated with such materials, I have 3 small children playing in the yard? Should I have an environmental impact study performed on the property? What about resale of the property?
Tek-Tips is the largest IT community on the Internet today!
Members share and learn making Tek-Tips Forums the best source of peer-reviewed technical information on the Internet!
-
Congratulations TugboatEng on being selected by the Eng-Tips community for having the most helpful posts in the forums last week. Way to Go!
foundry slag 1
- Thread starter danted
- Start date
You can do some research by checking with various state or local agencies to see if there are any existing reports on your property or the foundry. Start with your town, and move on to Health Dept, DEP, DNR, whatever you have in your area of the country.
Or you could hire an environmental consultant to do the research for you. It could run you a couple of thousand $.
Foundry slag can have metals. Did the foundry give "waste" slag or dust to property owners? It could be widespread thruout your area. I would get professional help on deciding if the slag is potentially harmful to your kids.
Or you could hire an environmental consultant to do the research for you. It could run you a couple of thousand $.
Foundry slag can have metals. Did the foundry give "waste" slag or dust to property owners? It could be widespread thruout your area. I would get professional help on deciding if the slag is potentially harmful to your kids.
Heavy metals are almost a certainty - which ones depend on what the foundry did/made. Old foundry sites may also have asbestos-containing materials (ACMs), becasue asbestos has excellent insulation properties. ACMs I have found at old foundry sites includes gloves, asbestos rope, furnace bricks, ceiling tiles, etc.
I would recommend contacting and experienced evironmental consultant as to the appropriate steps. It's too bad you didn't have a Phase I environmental site assesment done before purchase, it potentially would have saved you a lot of headache. Also check real estate laws in your area; in some areas sellers are required by law to disclose known or potential sources of environmental contamination.
Good Luck.
I would recommend contacting and experienced evironmental consultant as to the appropriate steps. It's too bad you didn't have a Phase I environmental site assesment done before purchase, it potentially would have saved you a lot of headache. Also check real estate laws in your area; in some areas sellers are required by law to disclose known or potential sources of environmental contamination.
Good Luck.
- Thread starter
- #4
Yes, there could be real long-term health effects if the material contains significant quantities of certain toxic metals like lead or cadmium. Children playing in this material may inhale or ingest these metals. Only proper sampling and a risk assessment can tell you.
If you want a quick and dirty assessment, have a sample of the slag collected and sent to a certified laboratory for analysis for toxic metals such as cadmium, chromium, nickel, lead, etc. One sample will cost you less than $100. Compare results to the preliminary remediation goals (PRGs)for each metal, estabilshed by the EPA:
If the SLAG meets PRGs, chances are you don't have a risk problem. I must caution that I don't condone this approach and it is not a good substitute for a professional assesment.
The other potential problem is financial liability for cleanup. I have a current client who used some of what was supposed to be "inert" spend sandblast media to fill low spots, etc. at his house and other properties. He was later reported by a disgruntled employee for improper disposal of haz waste, and a criminal investigation ensued. It turns out the material had heavy metals, and he has now spent lots of $$ of site investigation and cleanup. Even if you don't think it's a problem, someone else might, and as property owner you may be liable. Also, per my previous message regarding real estate law, now that you know the property has slag you may be obligated to tell any future buyers.
If you want a quick and dirty assessment, have a sample of the slag collected and sent to a certified laboratory for analysis for toxic metals such as cadmium, chromium, nickel, lead, etc. One sample will cost you less than $100. Compare results to the preliminary remediation goals (PRGs)for each metal, estabilshed by the EPA:
If the SLAG meets PRGs, chances are you don't have a risk problem. I must caution that I don't condone this approach and it is not a good substitute for a professional assesment.
The other potential problem is financial liability for cleanup. I have a current client who used some of what was supposed to be "inert" spend sandblast media to fill low spots, etc. at his house and other properties. He was later reported by a disgruntled employee for improper disposal of haz waste, and a criminal investigation ensued. It turns out the material had heavy metals, and he has now spent lots of $$ of site investigation and cleanup. Even if you don't think it's a problem, someone else might, and as property owner you may be liable. Also, per my previous message regarding real estate law, now that you know the property has slag you may be obligated to tell any future buyers.
4tuna made a very good point. If you now sample the property, you will know for sure what the deal is, good or bad. If bad, you will have a problem that will have to be disclosed. If good, you have no problem. Its a gamble that is not 50-50 since I agree with the other posters that heavy metals are most likely present.
Good luck, and proceed intellengently and slowly.
BobPE
Good luck, and proceed intellengently and slowly.
BobPE
dicksewerrat
Civil/Environmental
Was there any mention of this contamination during the sale? any environmental info on the deed? Call the realtor that handled the sale. They and the previous owner may have astake in the cleanup, if it is required.
Two points:
1) If a loan was obtained to purchase the property, the lender should have performed a Phase I as part of 'due diligence.'
2) The type of foundry makes a difference. My guess as to relative hazard ranking, from least to worst bad:
a) Cast iron -- not much, maybe a little Cr.
b) Steel -- Cr, Ni in small amounts
c) Stainless steel - Cr, Ni
d) Aluminum -- Cr(from chromating), Cu, Zn, F-
e) Brass & Bronze -- Cd, Cu, Pb, Zn
1) If a loan was obtained to purchase the property, the lender should have performed a Phase I as part of 'due diligence.'
2) The type of foundry makes a difference. My guess as to relative hazard ranking, from least to worst bad:
a) Cast iron -- not much, maybe a little Cr.
b) Steel -- Cr, Ni in small amounts
c) Stainless steel - Cr, Ni
d) Aluminum -- Cr(from chromating), Cu, Zn, F-
e) Brass & Bronze -- Cd, Cu, Pb, Zn
- Thread starter
- #9
-
1
- #10
Dear Danted,
I can safely assume that Greenone, 4tuna, BobPE, dicksewerrat and Kenvlach have never faced the pointed end of EPA's CID (Criminal Investigative Division)sword.
If you think for one second that the sand was illegally placed on the property you purchased or that it may be hazardous give them a call. Think about it! Why would someone haul-off foundry sand and place it at a residence? A red flag should go up.
Call EPA CID in your region! At the least they may send someone to grab a sample of the sand and soil and analyze it free of charge.
For a change, put your tax dollars to work - call CID.
I can safely assume that Greenone, 4tuna, BobPE, dicksewerrat and Kenvlach have never faced the pointed end of EPA's CID (Criminal Investigative Division)sword.
If you think for one second that the sand was illegally placed on the property you purchased or that it may be hazardous give them a call. Think about it! Why would someone haul-off foundry sand and place it at a residence? A red flag should go up.
Call EPA CID in your region! At the least they may send someone to grab a sample of the sand and soil and analyze it free of charge.
For a change, put your tax dollars to work - call CID.
I have done Phase I, II & III's, but all industrial properties, no residential.
First, actual data will only cost about $200 for an initial sample and is worth more than expert opinions/conjectures.
Second, in my part of the country, the EPA or local administering agency isn't interested in anything minor, e.g., a $100K cleanup. Prosecutors won't be interested since there was probably no criminal intent (see 'Fourth').
Third, one should first verify the ability of the responsible party to pay for the results of any EPA interest. One case, it cost a client more than $100K to verify to the EPA that there wasn't contamination, and there was no chance of reimbursement from past tenants, anyway.
Fourth, (perhaps a worthless opinion) I doubt the previous owner felt that he was doing anything wrong. He was doing this to his own property, not midnight dumping. Perhaps building up a low spot [let's not even think about wetlands]. He may even have been loosening up some clay soil.
First, actual data will only cost about $200 for an initial sample and is worth more than expert opinions/conjectures.
Second, in my part of the country, the EPA or local administering agency isn't interested in anything minor, e.g., a $100K cleanup. Prosecutors won't be interested since there was probably no criminal intent (see 'Fourth').
Third, one should first verify the ability of the responsible party to pay for the results of any EPA interest. One case, it cost a client more than $100K to verify to the EPA that there wasn't contamination, and there was no chance of reimbursement from past tenants, anyway.
Fourth, (perhaps a worthless opinion) I doubt the previous owner felt that he was doing anything wrong. He was doing this to his own property, not midnight dumping. Perhaps building up a low spot [let's not even think about wetlands]. He may even have been loosening up some clay soil.
Dear Danted, BobPE, Kenvlach
I can solve part of your problem rapidly. Send a sample (about a quart) of your foundry sand to me. I will have it analyzed at no cost to you(heavy metals + TCLP). I will have the analysis emailed or faxed to BobPE, Kenvlach or anyone else for a third party review.
The Laboratory owes me a few favors.
If I'm ever in your part of the country you can buy me a steak dinner.
FEDEX to:
Todd Foret
Oxilume, LLC
104 Thomas Street
Abbeville, LA 70510
phone: (337) 298-8870
I can solve part of your problem rapidly. Send a sample (about a quart) of your foundry sand to me. I will have it analyzed at no cost to you(heavy metals + TCLP). I will have the analysis emailed or faxed to BobPE, Kenvlach or anyone else for a third party review.
The Laboratory owes me a few favors.
If I'm ever in your part of the country you can buy me a steak dinner.
FEDEX to:
Todd Foret
Oxilume, LLC
104 Thomas Street
Abbeville, LA 70510
phone: (337) 298-8870
Daunted
All the above advice is very good concerning metals contamination.
Also may need to be aware that slag matterials give off toxic gases like ammonia, phenol, and formaldehyde when wet and the reactive material can be sealed inside the center of the slag heap.
Just be careful about any areas you expose to wetting.
All the above advice is very good concerning metals contamination.
Also may need to be aware that slag matterials give off toxic gases like ammonia, phenol, and formaldehyde when wet and the reactive material can be sealed inside the center of the slag heap.
Just be careful about any areas you expose to wetting.
You fellows seem to have gone off on the deep end on this one, with little to go on. Before this goes any further, Danted should fill in a few blanks:
1. Where is this site located? Just the general local, not an exact address. Dante has not even said it is in the US.
2. The particulars of what business the foundry is in (or was in?). This information is readily available. Check the library if in the firm is no longer in business.
3. "what looks like different types of foundry slag". Surely there is a better description of this material than that.
4. There is no regulatory definition of "slag".
1. Where is this site located? Just the general local, not an exact address. Dante has not even said it is in the US.
2. The particulars of what business the foundry is in (or was in?). This information is readily available. Check the library if in the firm is no longer in business.
3. "what looks like different types of foundry slag". Surely there is a better description of this material than that.
4. There is no regulatory definition of "slag".
JimMetalsCeramics
Materials
Aside from waiting on oxilume's analysis, he is correct, you can check with EPA. The question is: if they find something, who bares the clean-up costs. If the foundry is still in business, you should apprise them of the situation.
My other suggestion would be to contact a civil engineering company in you area. Many of them perform, as a routine part of their work (some as their exclusive work), soil analysis for new site development. This entails knowing how to take samples and where. This and knowing the legal ramifications are their business.
If there are hazardous metals or organics (it depends what sort of foundary is was and whether they handled much organic waste), then aside from direct ingestion, the main concern would be penetration of the material into groundwater.
My other suggestion would be to contact a civil engineering company in you area. Many of them perform, as a routine part of their work (some as their exclusive work), soil analysis for new site development. This entails knowing how to take samples and where. This and knowing the legal ramifications are their business.
If there are hazardous metals or organics (it depends what sort of foundary is was and whether they handled much organic waste), then aside from direct ingestion, the main concern would be penetration of the material into groundwater.
Slag from a furnace melting cast iron can contain harmful elemments from the melted scrap. Depending on alot of factors, these may leach into the soil.
Most smaller foundries cast either aluminum, brass, or both. Protective flux is used in melting these and the flux is a low melting point mixture of salts.
For aluminum, this is usually sodium chloride, potassium chloride, plus a fluoride and perhaps an unknown or two. These salts leach easily.
jerry grott
Most smaller foundries cast either aluminum, brass, or both. Protective flux is used in melting these and the flux is a low melting point mixture of salts.
For aluminum, this is usually sodium chloride, potassium chloride, plus a fluoride and perhaps an unknown or two. These salts leach easily.
jerry grott
- Status