Flush Cladding (1st storey to 2nd storey)

[palk7 EIT]

Hi,

In a regular residential sub div's I see brick veneer at the ground floor wall and then vinyl siding at the second floor, they don't have any setbacks or brick sills at the transition, everything appears to be flushed. So how do they frame this detail in a typical way?

Opt.1:-
Is it to cantilever the floor joist 4.5" from lower wall sheathing and line up everything flush if this is the case what happens when parallel to the wall?

Opt.2:-
Put a P.T sill on top of the brick veneer and frame with P.T studs (as a dummy one) just to hold the vinyl siding alone?

Thank you!

 

[phamENG]

Option 1.

Though I looked at a house recently with some poorly designed/executed connections and it was more of option 2...but they weren't dummy studs - they were the load bearing wall!

 

[palk7 EIT]

I got to see recently 90-100 new houses where all of them were of this flush detail at exterior cladding and to achieve this after doing all those precise calcs. in the paper and detailing it out, I can't imagine if those details will be followed at site.

Especially when the floor framing is parallel, the cant. has to be backed onto a beam with the connections there.

 

[phamENG]

It's usually not a big deal. Unless you have 2x4 floor joists, they'll be resisting it almost exclusively in shear anyway.

 

[jayrod12]

Often we've seen rigid insulation and strapping to make up the difference as well. But I practice in an area where it gets mighty cold in the winter so the added insulation is a real boon to building performance anyway.

Otherwise I have seen option 1 as well. I have seen option 2, but like Pham, it was poorly executed and the brick veneer became load-bearing. So I wouldn't suggest planning for option 2, but realize that it may end up being that way when it's done.

 

[phamENG]

I just remembered, I did use #2 on a renovation once. Single story brick veneer, adding a second story. I did option 1 everywhere but the stairwell on the exterior wall. For that one, I had them rip them the top plate off and sister full height studs. Then, I had them build a second "dumby" wall on top of the existing veneer so the B&B could be flush with the rest of the second floor and brick below and tied it back to the sheathing on the primary wall.

 

[palk7 EIT]

jayrod12, by adding rigid insulation to the exterior doesn't it create a room for a double vapor barrier both interior & exterior of the wall creating a moisture problem? Or is done like wall sheathing-> moist. barrier-> vertical furring -> then a rigid insulation? followed by strapping & cladding

 

[XR250]

I always use option 1 when designing. I see option 2 on a lot of older homes.

 

[jayrod12]

It would be sheathing, Vapour permeable moisture barrier, rigid insulation (I believe the thickness has a maximum limitation to prevent the double dew point you're indicating) then strapping & cladding. The strapping is vertical in line with the wall studs and fastened through the rigid back to the studs with long screws.

 

[dhengr]

Palk7 EIT:
What is your interest in these bldgs. and this detail, other than engineering education/learning? If there are 90 or 100 of these bldgs. in a development, I’ll bet the city bldg. dept. will have a permit file on the project. Why don’t you go have a look at the file, drawings and specs., and report back to us on your findings. Otherwise, we are guessing at what was done. An important thing for you to study and look at in those details, and report back on, are the water/vapor barrier plane system tie-in and the flashing details at this detail/level. They will be what makes or breaks this detail in terms of longevity and future bldg. problems. Otherwise, the brk. veneer should be tied well to the bldg. structure behind it, supported and drained well at the found. level and be allowed to move somewhat independently of the rest of the structure. Those are the areas which are typically neglected or short changed in the detailing and construction. The actual structuring can be done several ways.