I'm done with class forever in about a month from now. I will have a BS in ME. I have a company that tracked me down through a current employee. They would like me to come interview for a drafter position they have which would potentially lead to a designer job. I'm currently working as an intern at a large company. My question is, do you think it's a good idea to start as a drafter? Is this a spot many MEs start at? Might be a dumb question but I just don't know any better.
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First Job out of school 6
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Senselessticker
Electrical
I must chime in again...
If you are an ME and are involved in design type work.... the ability to perform CAD drafting as an engineer is a big deal. Companies that rely strictly on "drafters" to do ALL the CAD/drafting are on their way out of business... Those days are over...
In today's market, companies rely on the ability of young engineers to adapt to and efficently utilize modern design software.
A Sr. Engineer (or more specifically, an "old guy" still doing straight up design) who must rely on a drafter to perform ALL his/her CAD work, is a major financial liabilty with little promise (unless he/she becomes a manager, etc..) of helping the company remain competative.
A design engineer with 5 to 10 years experience who can draft, will run circles around a 20 year engineer who needs a drafter to "do his work" when you look at "bang for buck".
I would like to note that I am strictly speaking of "design" type work. There's gazillions of engineering positions that have nothing to do with design and where drafting has nothing to do with the job.
So... if you're an engineer who still is handing redlines to a drafter... you're probably going to be looking for work sooner or later... Like I said above: Those days are over.
If you are an ME and are involved in design type work.... the ability to perform CAD drafting as an engineer is a big deal. Companies that rely strictly on "drafters" to do ALL the CAD/drafting are on their way out of business... Those days are over...
In today's market, companies rely on the ability of young engineers to adapt to and efficently utilize modern design software.
A Sr. Engineer (or more specifically, an "old guy" still doing straight up design) who must rely on a drafter to perform ALL his/her CAD work, is a major financial liabilty with little promise (unless he/she becomes a manager, etc..) of helping the company remain competative.
A design engineer with 5 to 10 years experience who can draft, will run circles around a 20 year engineer who needs a drafter to "do his work" when you look at "bang for buck".
I would like to note that I am strictly speaking of "design" type work. There's gazillions of engineering positions that have nothing to do with design and where drafting has nothing to do with the job.
So... if you're an engineer who still is handing redlines to a drafter... you're probably going to be looking for work sooner or later... Like I said above: Those days are over.
If you're going to take a drafting job, be sure to take one that will teach you how to draft! At least you will come away with a necessary skill.
Drawings are not going away, but it seems that good draftsmanship is. Computers have only made drawings worse. Drawings are cleaner looking yet more confused and aimless.
Good drawings beget good parts, necessary for your precious design to properly function. Poor drawings, well...
![[bat]](/data/assets/smilies/bat.gif "[bat] [bat]")
Honesty may be the best policy, but insanity is a better defense.
-SolidWorks API VB programming help
Drawings are not going away, but it seems that good draftsmanship is. Computers have only made drawings worse. Drawings are cleaner looking yet more confused and aimless.
Good drawings beget good parts, necessary for your precious design to properly function. Poor drawings, well...
Honesty may be the best policy, but insanity is a better defense.-SolidWorks API VB programming help
Senselessticker
Electrical
Sorry, have to chime in again (maybe a bit off topic of the OP, but relavent...)
This is my opinion (everyone has one), and its worth what you are paying for it...
If a design company is not beginning/considering to automate a large percentage of the modeling/drafting, then that company is probably on its way out of business also...
"Drafting/CAD design" as referred to in it's traditional meaning is rapidly going out of style (no differently than manual drafting is virtually a lost art now).
Design software companies are currently in a lucrative state of competition to integrate code compliant automated design into construction drawings such that the "checker" will actually spend more time staring over a set of drawings than does the designer and/or drafter.
Given the proper input data, the ability to <click here to design the HVAC system> or <click here to design the electical system> (complete with all the calculations of course) of any given new building is either already at hand, or its just around the corner...
Getting back to the OP... be sure to check out what kind of plans the company has for the way it does design/CAD work. If engineers are handing off traditional redlines to drafters - then that company will either be laying off folks in the near future and/or filing Chapter 11 long before you could ever have a career there.
This is my opinion (everyone has one), and its worth what you are paying for it...
If a design company is not beginning/considering to automate a large percentage of the modeling/drafting, then that company is probably on its way out of business also...
"Drafting/CAD design" as referred to in it's traditional meaning is rapidly going out of style (no differently than manual drafting is virtually a lost art now).
Design software companies are currently in a lucrative state of competition to integrate code compliant automated design into construction drawings such that the "checker" will actually spend more time staring over a set of drawings than does the designer and/or drafter.
Given the proper input data, the ability to <click here to design the HVAC system> or <click here to design the electical system> (complete with all the calculations of course) of any given new building is either already at hand, or its just around the corner...
Getting back to the OP... be sure to check out what kind of plans the company has for the way it does design/CAD work. If engineers are handing off traditional redlines to drafters - then that company will either be laying off folks in the near future and/or filing Chapter 11 long before you could ever have a career there.
Not in in my children's lifetime. Coherent automated drawings just don't happen, except on Powerpoint presentations in sales presentations.Senseless said:
Riiight.... Who finishes the 30% of the design that the computer defaults got wrong? Who checks the results?Seneseless said:
Senselessticker
Electrical
TheTick,
If you read my post above you will note that I state the checker will spend more time on the drawing set than does the designer when considering an automated design. So to answer your question about who checks the results, well... the checker does.
And if you really think design automation is generations or even a single generation away from becoming mainstream, then well, that is your opinion...
I wonder how many guys years ago said things like: "Oh, the idea of 100 Megabit/s ethernet will never happen - or - 1 Gig Ethernet will never happen - or - 10 Gig ether will never happen - or - my car will never be linked to a satallite - or - what do you mean robots will build cars? - or - no one will ever crack the code to the entier human DNA sequence".
All these things I just mentioned did not only happen in a generation, most occured within a small fraction of a generation.
As for drawing automation... I know that it works at least on a small scale because I have personally written the code that does it, and I use it routinely at work to assist with some of the mundane and time consuming CAD type of tasks. And yes, there are some CAD operators out there who are a little angry because they don't get to spend 2 days doing something that takes me 2 minutes. In fact, about a year ago, I was asking our CAD operator to assist me with coming up with ideas of how to integrate and automate our design processes to elliminate some of the mundane and time consumming tasks. He laughed at me, refused to help me, and of course mouthed off about how it could never happen. Even his boss (not me) instructed him to assist me. He still refused, and was later fired for an unrelated reason.
So just for the record about drawing automation... it IS happening and the sky is the limit on how far it will go.
If you read my post above you will note that I state the checker will spend more time on the drawing set than does the designer when considering an automated design. So to answer your question about who checks the results, well... the checker does.
And if you really think design automation is generations or even a single generation away from becoming mainstream, then well, that is your opinion...
I wonder how many guys years ago said things like: "Oh, the idea of 100 Megabit/s ethernet will never happen - or - 1 Gig Ethernet will never happen - or - 10 Gig ether will never happen - or - my car will never be linked to a satallite - or - what do you mean robots will build cars? - or - no one will ever crack the code to the entier human DNA sequence".
All these things I just mentioned did not only happen in a generation, most occured within a small fraction of a generation.
As for drawing automation... I know that it works at least on a small scale because I have personally written the code that does it, and I use it routinely at work to assist with some of the mundane and time consuming CAD type of tasks. And yes, there are some CAD operators out there who are a little angry because they don't get to spend 2 days doing something that takes me 2 minutes. In fact, about a year ago, I was asking our CAD operator to assist me with coming up with ideas of how to integrate and automate our design processes to elliminate some of the mundane and time consumming tasks. He laughed at me, refused to help me, and of course mouthed off about how it could never happen. Even his boss (not me) instructed him to assist me. He still refused, and was later fired for an unrelated reason.
So just for the record about drawing automation... it IS happening and the sky is the limit on how far it will go.
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Thanks to all who have replied. I completely agree that I am not truly done with classes. I know that if I stop learning, especially in this field, I might as well retire because I'm done.
I only meant that I am done with college level, generic classes. I actually look forward to classes that are carreer specific.
In refference to my action plan, I will sit down for an interview and make it very clear that I am not a drafter and don't plan to be. If they have an ME position that happens to have a lot of drafting at first I am interested. I think this will actually help the transition phase and will help me become aquainted to the company and what they do. Plus, all interviews are a learning experience.
I only meant that I am done with college level, generic classes. I actually look forward to classes that are carreer specific.
In refference to my action plan, I will sit down for an interview and make it very clear that I am not a drafter and don't plan to be. If they have an ME position that happens to have a lot of drafting at first I am interested. I think this will actually help the transition phase and will help me become aquainted to the company and what they do. Plus, all interviews are a learning experience.
Drafting is a good way to get your foot in the door if the company allows you to grow. If you end up in the right situation you will quickly start learning by interacting with the experienced engineers, make sure you ask questions that will help you advance. However, be ware that Drafting as a profession is a dying function. Long gone are the days where a person can focus entirely on drafting for a full shift. Engineers now days have to be able to model their ideas, and given the advancement in software development i think it's a necessity for companies to remain competetive.
You should be able to use your intership experience as leverage to get your foot in the door of a good engineering job. Consider moving out of your confort zone, you never know what opportunities are outside your area. I left the Bay Area (CA) for a job opportunity in Washington DC (3000+ miles) and have not regret it a bit. I got a better job that i could ever have gotten in California.
You should be able to use your intership experience as leverage to get your foot in the door of a good engineering job. Consider moving out of your confort zone, you never know what opportunities are outside your area. I left the Bay Area (CA) for a job opportunity in Washington DC (3000+ miles) and have not regret it a bit. I got a better job that i could ever have gotten in California.
Just curious. I hear so many people say that "There are not many jobs where I am.", or "No good jobs where I am." ... followed by "What should I do?"
Why not move to where the jobs are? This is the solution that many before have embarked upon.
"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?
Why not move to where the jobs are? This is the solution that many before have embarked upon.
"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?
So my input:
Drafting (real drafting as in product definition be it hand drawings, 2D CAD, 3D CAD with 2D drawings or even MBD) is underrated.
I'd say having some drafting experience could be very usuefull, though it will be of most use if it's real drafting with familiarity with drawing standards, GD&T etc.
However, as others have said, be carefull not to get pigeon holed into just being a CAD monkey. CAD monkeys who know all the buttons but don't really understand what they're trying to achieve are of little to no use, especially in a more engineering role.
Make sure you have the clear path to a full Engineering position as others suggest. In fact, is there any reason why the position is not 'Design Engineer'? Here in the US Drafter or Designer seems to generally imply no BS in Engineering.
Also are you talking about exempt or non exempt (for mechanical typically areas like HVAC)? Either way PE may be usefull in the future and at least in CA time spent drafting doesn't count to PE which is one of several things keeping me from getting PE.
KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...
Drafting (real drafting as in product definition be it hand drawings, 2D CAD, 3D CAD with 2D drawings or even MBD) is underrated.
I'd say having some drafting experience could be very usuefull, though it will be of most use if it's real drafting with familiarity with drawing standards, GD&T etc.
However, as others have said, be carefull not to get pigeon holed into just being a CAD monkey. CAD monkeys who know all the buttons but don't really understand what they're trying to achieve are of little to no use, especially in a more engineering role.
Make sure you have the clear path to a full Engineering position as others suggest. In fact, is there any reason why the position is not 'Design Engineer'? Here in the US Drafter or Designer seems to generally imply no BS in Engineering.
Also are you talking about exempt or non exempt (for mechanical typically areas like HVAC)? Either way PE may be usefull in the future and at least in CA time spent drafting doesn't count to PE which is one of several things keeping me from getting PE.
KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...
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