First Job Offer In Controls Opinons wanted 1

[bullsonparade]

Got offered a position as a Controls Engineer with a fairly large ($18 billion) tech company that has fingers in lots of pies, mainly IT but has this engineering division. Job location is in a large town (250k pop.) in rural south GA.

They're offer is 48k plus from what I can tell decent benefits which they estimate to be worth 15k.

401k equivalent (call it matched asset plan) I can put in 15% of base they will match 50% of first 3%. Medical/Dental/Vision/Prescription, 3% after tax pension, 2weeks vacation (rolls over), life insurance, disability etc.., education compensation 5,200 yearly.

I've been researching salaries, asked fellow EE grads from GaTech. EE's overall are reporting 51k average starting. Controls seems to command a little more ~53. All my friends who are doing controls stuff seem to have started out lower or with worse benefits.

I have the following as leverage, company offered another Tech EE, he turned it down, they had to start the process over again. I was the only one out of 6 that knew what PLC's were and only one that got a second interview.

They were looking at either experienced or entry level, chose entry level. So perhaps they may be willing to pay more.

I have another phone interview this Friday about another manuf. controls job in Des Moines.

I still have some other leads, though no other offers.

I have a specific background in controls vs. general EE degree.

What do you guys suggest ? I want to say to them, that if they make a strong offer in the 50's I will commit to the offer.

 

[itsmoked]

This your first outta school gig?

Keith Cress
Flamin Systems, Inc.-

http://www.flaminsystems.com

 

[controlnovice]

Don't worry about the money, yet.

Is the work something you would be interested in doing? Is the position able to grow? Learn new applications? Develop new products?

The money and benefits are good. You've even said yourself that your friends with a controls education have started out worse.

In today's market, although it is getting better than 3-6 years ago, don't wait for something better to come along. It may not come. This is a good salary and benefits.

Ask them what frequency are your reviews. When I started, my first review was at 6 months, and I got a raise. My second review was 8 months after the first, and I got a raise. Then the standard 12 months after that.

For a city of 250k in Georgia, this is very good pay and benefits. Have I stated that enough?

However, if you don't think you'll like the work, look elsewhere. Good luck.

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[JLSeagull]

Consider the other life style stuff too. Do you enjoy the outdoor activities that are available in the immediate area. $50k is likely better in Columbus than Atlanta. I think the new grad starting rate in Texas is higher - and we are hiring too. The housing and lifestyle need to suit your needs.

 

[ADMIRALKEN]

You have to consider the cost of living also. 48K in GA is better than 55K in CA, for example, do to the high cost of living.

 

[bullsonparade]

Thanks guys, I really appreciate your input. This is my first job offer and I graduate this August.

The carrot they keep dangling is that as an entry level engineer I will get 3 6month performance evals and each time I have a chance to get a 10% raise. So if all goes well in 18 months I could be making 63k.

The job seems a bit claustrophobic. It is a support/maintenence engineering position on Allan Bradely PLC's and SCADA systems. I will spend 50% of the time upgrading controls algorightms and the other 50% doing maintenence. I still don't know what they mean by maintenence. The controls group is 4 guys who all seem to have been there for the past 20 years.

I'd like to be in a larger city but I should be fine in the boonies, it's pretty much where I've grown up. The cost of living is miniscule around Columbus. I could probably rent a 1,400 sq/ft house for $600/mo.

But the main thing is I would like to be in a design type job. Ideally on aircraft stability/navigation/gps etc.. the sexier side to controls if you will.

Nevertheless I do realize that getting to learn Allen Bradely hardware/Rockwell software would be very valuable. My role in that small workgroup would soon be indespensible. The money could be fantastic.

The company has been very professional and ultra fast in getting back to me. The whole process has taken 5 weeks including the delay caused by the 4th of July.

 

[Ashereng]

"Show me the money."

If you can't then, all bets are off, regardless of whether this is your first job, mid-life crisis or semi-retirement fund.

If a company is serious about treating their employees fairly, then the money should be fair (for your area, job description, level of expertise). The money doesn't have to be the highest, but it does have to be competitive. Otherwise, they are chiselling you.

Possiblity of 10% raises mean nothing. Either you have it, or you don't. As of now, you don't. All you have is $48K. Oh by the way, I talked to my HR buddy. Benefits are typically around 22% of salary for engineers. Sales and marketing type, where there is commission or variable pay, the numbers are different (I didn't ask any further). So, for you, that should be around $10K in benefits, not $15K. Just a heads up.

After all of this, you need to decide what you want in life (ie. have a goal). What ever your goal is, if this job will lead you closer to that goal, and given that the money side is fair, then I would suggest you take it. If not, I suggest you look somewhere else.

Lots of people seem to think that the "first job" is special in some way. I say "bull cookies". A job is a job. The reason we work is to "put food on the table" as it were, and also to further ourselves for the next job up the ladder. I look at the first job as the foundation of a house. If you settle and take a lousy job, it will make it that much tougher for your career - much like a crooked foundation makes it that much tougher to build the rest of the house on.

Graduating now is a good thing - the job markets are very hot in many industry. From what I understand, GE (a large electrical company) is taking orders for their turbine generators for 2009 delivery (for some models). If you are not looking at a good job, with good pay and good prospects, I suggest you keep looking. If nothing else, you got time - your only just graduating.

Take your time, talk to your friends and folks. Good luck.

"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
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[controlnovice]

I believe support/maintenance is an ideal start.

I see so many beginning engineers struggle because they don't have an idea what they are designing. They've never seen it before.

Once you get your hands dirty in the stuff though, you really develop a sense of what you are designing.

It would be a great experience and foundation, as AsherEng describes, for you to build on.

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[bullsonparade]

Wow guys, I really appreciate the input. Thank you controlnovice and Ashereng for your thoughtful posts. I think I'm comfortable accepting their offer as is, but will prod them for a bit more before accepting.

I look forward to learning and contributing to these boards in the future.

 

[BigInch]

The cold truth IMO. Just get some good experience for now, then get a job outside the USA where you can get free housing, a car, 30-45 days vacation a year, airline tickets, a good tax break, and better yet, stop, according to the "The Economist", collecting US "Pesos".

http://virtualpipeline.spaces.msn.com

 

[knji]

bullsonparade (Electrical),

I agree with Controlnovice that Support/Maintenance is a good place to start. There is a lot of fundamentals to learn in a Support/Maintenance role, and I say this from experience. If you want to get into the design of electro-mechanical controls (aircraft, automotive, robotics, etc), it would be best to start from a Support role, if you have no prior co-op experience in the field.

Will you be graduating with a BSEE, MSEE or PHd? I ask because the sexier job in controls (aircraft, etc...) are typically done by guys with advanced control eduction. Believe me, there is a lot of simulation that goes into the design of electromechanical controls. Starting with mathematical modelling, system identification, then synthesis, there is typically plenty of mathematical crunching that takes place. Additionally, electro-mechanical plants are usually controlled with Advanced Controllers (MPC, SMC, EFL...).

Industrial control, on the otherhand, is relatively straigh forward and predominantly implemented using PID controllers. These are relatively easier concepts to understand although the tuning sometimes can be a nightmare. PLCs do the bulk of field industrial controls, so getting to learn about these things would be a very good start.

I would say, go for it. Learn as much as you can, and doors will open in a couple of years time.

Good Luck.

 

[itsmoked]

The point I would make is.. The money.. A few K here or there, is not what you should worry about. You want a job that will challenge you, let you see the world and a bunch of the extremely interesting things going on in it. A job that you can learn from and be a part of something bigger.

You can always go back and ask for more $$ AFTER you demonstrate some ability and eagerness to serve your employer.

Lots of money in some grist-mill of a position will quickly sour the most eager acolyte.

Keith Cress
Flamin Systems, Inc.-

http://www.flaminsystems.com

 

[JLSeagull]

One can make good money following the work overseas. When calculating, don't forget that you are taxed on the free housing and the car as income. Also, many US corporations take the tax break.

Invest in the 401k and stock instead of Visa or Master Card.

 

[bullsonparade]

Thanks for the continued input guys. I have an interview with a Japanese industrial controls company this Friday. It is for an entry level controls engineer position and they have teams of engineers since their concentration is designing / simulating / implementing batch process control in various industries. It helps that they are the #2 industrial controls company in Japan and have a significant presence here in the US. I hope I get this job, if I do I will most likely jump all over it.

 

[JLSeagull]

Is it Yokogawa 1 followed by Yamatake or Toshiba?

 

[itsmoked]

He's not going to say!

Keith Cress
Flamin Systems, Inc.-

http://www.flaminsystems.com

 

[knji]

Wow, another interview?

Looks like I should be moving down South!

Good Luck on Friday.

 

[bullsonparade]

I came across a blurb that said Omron was #1 in Japan.

I'm facing a dilemma now. The company with whom I have an offer wants to know something tomorrow (Wednesday). I have to figure out what approach to take in asking them for 1 more week to decide.

I have this interview with the Japanese company Friday and I will let them know at some point toward the end of the interview that I need to know something soon.

 

[controlnovice]

A couple of options in buying more time:

- Tell them you have another offer and need more time to select between the two. However, they could say "good luck with that and don't call us again", or "Oh, well, we can work with your salary/benefits some if you like."

- Tell them you want to talk to your family about moving 'so far from home', 'away from the favorite family goldfish', or 'girlfriend/boyfriend you are planning on marrying', and you need more time

- Take the offer and still go on the second interview. You would burn a bridge that you can never cross again if you take the second possible job offer, but at least you have 'a bird in the hand'.... (I don't really recommend this, but it is an option).

Oh, and don't always believe the hype about being the 2nd in Japan and making inroads in the USA. It'll be a difficult road to make big progress in competing with the Emersons, Honeywells, Allen Bradleys, etc. in the States. If you enjoy a challenge, go right ahead.

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[Ashereng]

If you need more time, then just ask for it.

"May I have until August 3rd to give a response?"

You don't need to give a reason. If they ask, just say you need some time to think about it (which is the truth).

If they won't give you another week, well, that says a lot about the company, and your potential new boss now doesn't it?

A company will not treat you any better than when they are recruiting you, has been my experience.

"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
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