Firestone AT Tires

[TheBlacksmith]

Looking for expert's opinions/views strictly for personal curiosity. For the record, my new truck has 16 inch Wilderness HT tires, 35,000 miles with no problems. We live in an era of high tech materials, tools and processes they didn't even dream of a generation ago. I remember when buying tires was every 15,000 miles and flats happened every couple of years.

1) Has Firestone become so jaded they assumed everything they did was okay and didn't inspect closely. With the exception of severely overloaded or abused tires (18 wheelers, etc.), I haven't seen them shred like that for twenty years or more.

2) Have owners become so jaded they take everything for granted? Probably, with self serve gas pumps, most cars never see a knowledgeable person unless it's a state inspector, so tire pressures, oil levels, oil changes go unchecked.

3) Was the Explorer truly flawed? I have seen staged tests on Car and Driver TV where they caused a rapid loss of air (not a shredded tire) and the driver maintained control.

4) Was this just the unfortunate symbiosis of a marginal vehicle and marginal tires? This would seem to explain fewer problems on Explorers with other tires and the Firestones on other vehicles.

Again, there is nothing in this for me, no lawsuits, no money back, and no replacements. I just like to stay informed of trends and ensure I can make intelligent choices of vehicles and components.

Blacksmith

 

[evelrod]

Blacksmith

I live in Southern California near the I-15, and there is seldom , no make that NEVER, a week goes by that someone doesn't roll an SUV for one reason or another. Tire failure with the Wilderness AT tires get a lot of press, but I have been keeping track of all the reasons these rollovers happen and I can tell you it has more to do with INCOMPETENT DRIVERS and excessive speed than tire failure.
Just my opinion.

Rod

 

[TheBlacksmith]

Rod,

We've traded opinions before and I think you're right again. I sort of alluded to bad drivers and misuse in my original post. All the owners manuals (what's that?) have a section on the different handling characteristics of the vehicle, but since driving has become regarded as a right and not a privilege, one should assume they already know everything and shouldn't refer to the manual, or the warnings on the visors. Also, most of these vehicles are misleading in their capacity (owner's manual again). Just like "I can't be out of money, I've got check's left", "I can be overloaded, there's still 3 cubic feet I haven't filled with bowling balls or lead shot..."

Blacksmith

 

[evelrod]

Blacksmith:

I worked as a driver instructor with th California Sportscar Club Region of the Sportscar Club of America (SCCA) for 7 years back in the 80's and I can form an expert opinion about this subject---MOST DRIVERS HAVE NO CONCEPT OF WHAT THE DYNAMICS OF AN OUT OF CONTROL 3000 LB. AUTOMOBILE ARE. If they did , they would all be going the speed limit or less, not more. I have left the roadway at more than 150 mph and survived, ON THE RACETRACK!!!
It is all a matter of preparation, training and, PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE!!! This is not to say that I could not have been injured or killed, I am just saying that if all drivers on the freeway were given the opportunity to learn the skills (and practice them) necessary to control a large fast moving vehicle in emergency situations the accident rate and injury rate would plummit. Unfortunately, every driver I ever worked with, every driver I ever met was the best driver on the road! I KNOW BETTER, AND THAT INCLUDES MYSELF. We all need better driving training.

Boy--did you hit a sore spot---sorry.

Rod

 

[evelrod]

WELL, HERE IT IS 07:00, WED. 20 JUNE,2001 AND SOMEONE JUST ROLLED AN SUV AT RAILROAD CANYON AND I-15----WHAT CAN I SAY?


Rod

 

[TheBlacksmith]

Rod,

In the '70's, CalSpan ran a study outside of Buffalo NY. The standard three lanes (marked with cones), with three traffic lights, drivers approach at 50 mph, any or all of the lights turn red, driver had to go through a "green" lane or stop, as appropriate. Test cars, with roll cages were an otherwise stock V-8 Chevelle and an SS Chevelle with the handling package. According to the engineers, 80% of the street drivers couldn't/didn't push the stock Chevelle to its limits, and not all the professionals (primarily NY style stock cars and sprint car drivers) could take the SS to its handling limits. The cones didn't survive! I didn't see that drivers have improved. It took me forever to convince (I think) my daughter that the emergency in emergency brake is a loss of the hydraulic circuits, not a driver running a red light! Thanks to drivers (mis-) education, she though ABS brakes stopped quicker on dry roads and the emergency brake locking the rear wheels also stopped quicker. By the way, she is now a State certified rescue driver and drives pretty well - Ford 7.3 ltr diesel ambulances top out around 110 if you wondered.

Blacksmith

 

[evelrod]

Blacksmith-

Well here I go again---
When I was just out of college and I was LOST and trying to find an engineering job (my gpa wasn't exactly stellar) and I had just gotten married, I took a temporary job as an ambulance driver/security guard on the Apache reservation in AZ . I only had an International Travelall ambulance but it was big and white and had red lights and sirens---NOBODY COULD SEE IT AND TOTALLY IGNORED ME!!!
Tell your daughter for me to go slow and watch out. The legal limit for emergency vehicles is usually only 10 mph above the posted speed!!!
My 30 year old daughter just got a ticket for 95 in a 70 so obviously I have no room to critisize.

PS---I quit after 3 months, hated the job!!! Oh yes, never got the engineering job , either.

Rod

 

[TheBlacksmith]

Rod,

I guess this is our own personal chat room. Yeah, I told my daughter to cool it, all it takes is someone not yielding to her lights and siren... the 110 was with a person showing vital signs but no pulse, so they were in a hurry to get to the hospital. Also, she's young and hanging out with gearheads (oops). My point was, at least she got a course in emergency vehicle handling out of it, so she's a better driver than many on the road. The school sponsored driver mis-education makes you an ace at parallel parking, but doesn't even venture onto an interstate to teach merging, lane changes, etc. I think the interstate miles around here are about ten times the number of parallel parking places...go figure. Let's blame the manufacturers for providing the vehicle people want. By the way, most people's idea of going off road is turning into their driveway, something like 15% of 4 wheel drive trucks actually go off road and about 10% of the SUVs.

Blacksmith

 

[jaymaec]

I know this is an old thread, but-

Driver's manual / owner's manual?

I had a Yamaha Tri-Z (3-wheeled ATV) a while back.
Only suitable for unpaved sufraces, 'cause with two wheels in back connected with a single axle, it REALLY had poor handling on pavement.

However, on dirt or sand, no problem- providing you help one or both rear tires slip. You can unload the inside tire by shifting your weight to the outside peg, or gas it and spin both- either way works fine.
The manual basicly said "slow to 10mph to turn"

yeah, right...

I wonder how many people read that, and hence had no clue how to ride the beast...

cheers
Jay

 

[evelrod]

Jay---I have fallen off dirt bikes more times than I can count (or remember). My only problem with falling on a three wheeler is THAT SUCKER ALWAYS FOLLOWS YOU!!! Probably why you see so many four wheelers now-a-days, eh?



Rod

 

[jaymaec]

Hi, Rod
I think the problem with three-wheelers lies in expectations and appearances:
1. it sits upright, so anyone can sit on it, and think maybe they can ride it. A bike falls over, and never leads you to believe it won't.
2. The trike requires skill to ride, contrary to initial expectations. The bike takes skill, but you expect that. The bike is hardest to keep upright at a standstill- with a trike, only once you get going does it require knowhow.

(of course, a quad or car also requires skill to go fast- but the average person has learned to drive in a car, and the quad is kind of similar...)

Falling over was never a problem for me- amazing what inclines it could traverse, or go up/down!
now, FEAR of coming off was a bit of a problem at times...

regards
Jay