Firefighting for 5km Pipeline

[pplbb2012]

Hi, we were designing a 5km gas oil pipeline from jetty to storage tank, while Client just challenged what resources are being considered to fight a possible fire along the pipeline route. This is interesting question but really challenge me: active firefighting was never considered for pipeline that was buried in soil, any potential leakage will be properly monitored and fire is difficultly happened.

However, when the pipeline is really fired, the only passive way I can remind is calling 911 for firefighting, fortunately this pipeline is not far from municipal fire station.

Can anybody instruct me how I can answer this question from client? Is there any code or regulation specified for pipeline firefighting in NFPA, ASME, ISO, etc?

Thanks guy!

 

[LittleInch]

This is really all about what happens in a leak or rupture situation. How is flow and pressure reduced and where would it pool. ?

If it catches fire just let it burn out and call the local fire responders.

No specific additional resources are mandated by any code I know of for a buried pipeline carrying this sort of fluid. You needan emergency plan as part of operations and may need to inform or talk to the local fire officials, but that's about it IMHO.

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[BigInch]

Blow it down to a vent stack.

 

[LittleInch]

BI, its gas oil (aka diesel), not gas!

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[BigInch]

Didn't see that.
The fire will vaporize it.

 

[3DDave]

You have a basically unlimited supply of fuel and oxidizer. The presumption is there is an ignition source.

Almost all fire fighting is done by limiting access to the fuel. While I doubt anyone would build it, a series of connected valves that could automatically close along the pipeline at intervals would perform this function. Maybe use a pneumatic system with low-melting point alloy plugs or triggers, as are used in fire sprinklers, would allow the pressure to release from a closed pneumatic system, allowing spring loaded valves to shut.

Without an automatic shut off, the next way is to shut off the supply of oxygen. Since the planet has about a 20 mile deep reservoir of oxygen containing atmosphere, shutting that supply will be more difficult.

 

[BigInch]

Thermal relief valves.
Running to closed hydrocarbon drain terminating at a sump.
(Not to a vent as in my example above).

That's the maximum I've ever seen done in response to "firefighting for a pipeline".
If that's not good enough, bury it, or hang it under the pier.

 

[pplbb2012]

Thanks everyone, it looks i can't find reference from regulaton on this, the necessary alarm system and municipal firefighting support are needed.

 

[BigInch]

Wildfires burn over the top of buried pipelines in western US forested areas each year with no damage at all to the pipelines below. Forest fire damage is limited to a few inches of topsoil.

 

[LittleInch]

pplb2012, Can you confirm which scenario you were being asked to look at?

A) Fire caused by product leaking out of the pipeline and catching fire or
B) fire from any other source on the surface affecting the buried pipeline?

I was working on A), but I think BI is working on B)

If B, then I agree completely with BI - it will not have any impact at all on a buried pipeline.

3DDave - Just to be pedantic, but my understanding of fire fighting is that they work on the following basis:
1) get out anyone still alive / missing
2) Contain the fire and stop it spreading / reduce collateral damage
3) Consider whether to then let it burn out or actively fire fight. Sometime, especially with liquid fuels or gas, it is sometimes safer to leave it burn rather than wash it away or let a hazardous atmosphere develop
4) Active firefighting in most situations is restriction of oxygen to the fire surface either by dousing it in water, using foam to create a barrier, using gases which reduce oxygen levels (CO2, Halon etc) or physical barriers (blankets etc)

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Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[3DDave]

Hi LittleInch -

Much of that would be for fires of limited fuel supply and limited extent. The rest really isn't anything one can design into the system (like removing people) and if it has already breached the pipe, it is likely any outside container has also failed.

Except for local treatments to displace the atmosphere, I think when they have to put it out, they try to lower the temps below the ignition temp or make the energy barrier too high to ignite (such as soaking a forest in water or cutting away underbrush and trees.)

In many cases, self-sealing is the preferred method. Military aircraft and some race cars seem to use this method.

In an extreme case, shutting off the flow was the primary attempt to save Deep Horizon platform, an effort which failed not from unlucky circumstance, but simply lack of sufficient testing under realistic conditions. I suspect it did its prototype testing fine, but that testing was limited to perfect conditions. Even if blame can be laid on the installer, that the blow out preventer didn't report its compromised condition is a basic design flaw.

 

[BigInch]

Whatever petroleum container catches fire, basically you just let it burn itself out while trying to keep anything around it cool.

 

[LittleInch]

So what's the point of water and foam lines on storage tanks?

They tried that at buncefield, but after a couple of days had to go in an actually put the fires out. They had to wait to gather most of europes available foam supply to arrive before they started, but the fire was so big they couldn't let it burn out. One tank yes, One whole tank farm no.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4525504.stm

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[BigInch]

Water keeps the adjacent tanks cool. Kills the spills and keeps the grass on the dikes from burning across to the next tank.
Never seen a foam system put out a large tank fire. If they survive the rupture and heat, mostly just make more of a mess really.

 

[LittleInch]

Fair enough - they really struggled at Buncefield to put it out and needed an enormous number of fire fighters and fire pumps.

The OP seems to have vanished so I think we've gone off track a bit here.....

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[pplbb2012]

Thanks Guys for your continue discussion on this.
@Littleinch, my position is at option A as you raise.

I would share my finding during these days from website, it is very useful reference for firefighting on petrochemical plant and pipelines, hope it does help:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...ng-fires-in-petrochemical-plant-and-pipelines

May I ask an extra question:

For pipeline mounted on top of ground, what's the best solution for firefighting? Our proposal is providing firefighting water line and fire hydrant alone the pipeline (fortunately this portion of pipeline is only 0.7km), is there any other choice? Thanks.

 

[BigInch]

Yes, Buncefield is a good example.

Growing up in Houston was a good introduction to what they don't and can't do with tank fires. We'd go watch them try. Greatest effort went into keeping the surrounding tanks ... and other things cool.

 

[LittleInch]

Ok, for option A, I don't know of anyone who does anything.

for this to be an issue you need to:
A) have a substantial rupture or hole
B) Be in a position where fuel will pool and not leak away or soak into the ground
C) Have an ignition source

Given the unlikely combination of A, B and C all occurring at the same time - have you ever tried to light diesel? - the overall risk is so low as to be negligible, especially for a buried pipeline.

Therefore expending significant quantities of money to protect yourself from something that has very low probability and equally quite low consequence is simply nonsensical.

The thing everyone else is exactly Nothing. The fuel is in the pipe, it can't get out in any appreciable quantities unless you do something really bad in which case you would probably take out your fire water line.

If you really have to do something, buy a fire truck.

I've heard of risk averse, but this is crazy.

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[bimr]

Several federal regulations require emergency plans and response procedures (Code of Federal Regulations (CFR) 2012, Titles 30, 40, and 49), including the following:
• Notification of appropriate fire, police, and other public officials and coordinating response
• Pipeline controller emergency procedures
• Evacuation plans for pipeline facilities must be coordinated with local public safety officials
• Disclosure of hazards, layout, facilities, and quantities of materials present at facilities

Thirteen states have additional emergency planning or response requirements in place. These range from filing federal plans with the appropriate state agency to more elaborate requirements including the following:
• Notification of appropriate local emergency response agencies
• Annual meetings with fire departments along the right of way
• Cooperation with training local responders
• Notification of schools located within 1,000 feet of a pipeline, providing information on the location of the pipeline, products transported, designated emergency number for the pipeline operator, and information on excavation notification, recognition, and procedures to follow in the event of a leak.

Not sure what jurisdiction where you project is located, but would expect something similar.

 

[LittleInch]

Bimr - exactly. What no one asks for is what the OP is saying - "Our proposal is providing firefighting water line and fire hydrant alone [along??} the pipeline (fortunately this portion of pipeline is only 0.7km), is there any other choice?"

Have you ever seen or heard of anything more ridiculous??

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.