EVAPCO Goes PWT

[bimr]

Feedback on evapco.

Supposedly, this is the first Cooling Tower mfg. to embrace physical water treatment as an OEM vendor.

It appears that evapco hired John Lane from Clearwater Dohlphin. Clearwater Dolphin is an esteeded manfacturer of magnetic water treatment devices.

The local representative for evapco reports that evapco used to peddle dolphin units, now, they are peddling a copy of the dolphin unit made by evapco.

Here is a link to a report that analyzed the dolphin unit. No surprise, the device does not work.

http://www.prochemtech.com/Literature/Case_Histories/dolphin2.html

 

[H20Girl]

So if EVAPCO was/is not seeing some level of success with this technology, why would they be offering it on their cooling towers? Just to make their clients mad? Or maybe to make one of their employees happy because they gave him a job?

This simply doesn't make sense to me...

I believe that there is more to this story. It would be nice to hear some feedback from someone who actually has a system in place...

H2OGirl

 

[bimr]

Why do people keep buying these devices?

"With thousands of failed installations, not a single controlled study showing positive results, and no creditable operating theory; why are large numbers of NCD still sold each year? This is a very interesting question and has a multiple reply answer.

Proprietary Nature of the Water Treatment Business: Unlike many other science based fields, such as civil engineering, the provision of water management programs is dominated by proprietary technology. Thus there are no open sources where one can acquire the knowledge needed to separate "snake oil" and marketing hype from the real thing. In addition, the water treatment business has had, and still has, more than its fair share of marketing hype sales activity as well as just plain incompetent people.

General Lack of Scientific Knowledge: In spite of it being politically incorrect, the plain fact is that many people in engineering, specification, and purchase positions do not have the basic scientific knowledge to properly evaluate the many claims made in regards to water treatment. While this is partially due to the proprietary nature of the water treatment business, a good portion of it is due to a general de-emphasis on scientific subjects in the educational system. Included in this area are the various licensed professional engineers, who should know better than to practice outside of their field. Six credits of chemistry twenty years ago does not qualify someone to evaluate the merits of NCD versus generally accepted chemical practices.

"Green Marketing"- Chemophobia: Many suppliers of NCD are marketing their devices as "green" and safe alternatives to "chemicals", which are automatically assumed by many people to be environmentally bad and hazardous to health. While this was sometimes correct with pre USEPA programs, such as chromates, modern chemical treatment programs produce a lower environmental impact than many NCD installations due to the lower corrosion rates of system metals of construction obtained. In addition, "green" is only good when the technology actually works.

Cost Reduction Getting Something for Nothing: Many people decide to install NCD devices due to the substantial cost reductions claimed over chemical treatment programs. In some cases, the existing chemical program is very costly due to "snake oil" sales, or incompetence, making a cost reduction easy to "show". In several recently reviewed cases, the NCD supplier had "assumed" completely unrealistic costs for chemical programs to ensure that their technology would be cost competitive. The urge for cost reduction must be balanced with sufficient knowledge for an independent evaluation of claims made."

http://www.prochemtech.com/Literature/Technical/ncd.html

You keep asking for references, yet you fail to peruse them when they are presented to you. Look through these installations and feel free to point out any problems with the methodology:

http://www.prochemtech.com/Literature/Case_Histories/dolphin1.html

http://www.prochemtech.com/Literature/Case_Histories/dolphin2.html

http://www.aquacraft.com/Download Reports/Calfed Report.pdf

http://www.wbdg.org/ccb/ARMYCOE/PWTB/pwtb_420_49_34.pdf

 

[bimr]

"John Lane is the Vice President for Water Systems Engineering at EVAPCO. John is a graduate of MIT with a degree in Metallurgy and Material Science. Over his career he has worked in a variety of industries from fabrication of nuclear reactors to aerospace scrap recycling. For the past 9 years John has been involved in condenser water treatment, first as the Director of Technology for Clearwater Systems and more recently at EVAPCO."

Last time I looked, water treatment was taught in the civil environmental/ chemical engineer discipline.

If you interested in brain surgery, you would not contact a podiatrist would you?

 

[bimr]

Another case history:

http://www.prochemtech.com/Literature/Case_Histories/dolphin3.html

Clearwater sues Dolphin:

Judgment Clearwater v. Evapco et al, a matter which concerned claims of trade secret misappropriation in the field of electromagnetic water treatment. Successfully represented defendant.

See Clearwater Sys. Corp. v. Evapco, Inc., No. Civ.A 305CV507SRU, 2006 WL 726684, at *2 (D. Conn. Mar. 20, 2006) (refusing to award UTSA attorneys’ fees despite baseless lawsuit; “Clearwater’s ineffective identification of the trade secrets pursued in this case left much to be desired and doubtless increased EVAPCO’s costs in defending the litigation. Still, I am not convinced that Clearwater’s problems with trade secret identification reflect a calculated strategy to gain an advantage in the litigation or to unfairly compete with EVAPCO.”).

Clearwater’s "ineffective identification of the trade secrets" in this legal case shows they are nothing more than smoke and mirrors.

 

[GarySCWSVI]

H2OGirl,

The answer to your question "...why would they be offering it on their cooling towers?" is simple. Make more money.

Gary Schreiber, CWS VI
The Purolite Co.

 

[bimr]

Clearwater Systems' "Dolphin" device subjects the water to a time-varying magnetic field that is pulsed in a peculiar way, and they claim that these pulses somehow interact with colloidal material to prevent coagulation into scale-foming particles. The process is supposed to be more effective when the water is recirclated through the treatment coil, making it suitable for industrial applications such as cooling towers.They also claim a bacteriostatic effect: any bacteria unfortunate enough to be trapped within the articles as they form are unable to multiply. They imply that this is an FDA-approved method of "cold pasteurization", a term that I don't believe FDA allows, and which refers to another process altogether. Their Web site contains links to some fairly convincing reports, but to none in the open scientific literature.

http://www.chem1.com/CQ/aquacrack.html#DOLPHIN

http://www.chem1.com/CQ/gallery.html

 

[bimr]

"Cold Pasteurization"

A process that bathes food with low level gamma rays (x-rays) or an electron beam (e-beam) to reduce or kill microorganisms, such as e-coli, listeria, salmonella and campylobacter that may cause illnesses from exposure to harmful pathogens. This process is also used to increase the life of various foods, allowing them to remain fresh longer. Gamma rays have better penetrating capabilities over e-beams, which may be used in foods that are 3 inches thick or less. Some of the common food items that may be cold pasteurized are fruits, vegetables, herbs, spices, potatoes, grains, flour, poultry, and meat. Some consumers are concerned about radiation being used to treat foods, but it eliminates the need for many of the chemical additives and preservatives that are usually found in food products. All foods that have been irradiated must be clearly marked. Cold pasteurization is also known as irradiation or irradiation pasteurization. An alternative to cold pasteurization is bioengineering of foods by altering genes in plants to develop beneficial traits that assist in many different aspects of plant growth, taste, ripening, vitamin enrichment, and insect resistance, reducing the need for pesticides. Common bioengineered foods currently include canola oil, corn, soybeans, and tomatoes.

defnition from the "spam" people:

http://www.hormel.com/kitchen/glossary.asp?id=35713

And the FDA definition doesn't talk about magnetics either:

http://www.mindfully.org/Food/Irradiation-FDA-Change-Label9oct02.htm

 

[bimr]

The rocket scientist inquires"

"Maybe the question should be "Why did EVAPCO decide to offer PWT with their products (cooling towers), and include a factory warranty", which by the way is a better warranty than if the client choose to use a traditional water treatment?"

Ev**** response when your cooling tower fills up with scale:

Sorry to hear about that, here is your money back on the $1,000 magnet system. No, we will not acid wash the cooling tower to remove the scale, that is not covered by the warranty, that is consequential damages and will cost you a lot more than the magnet system.

The tradition water treatment supplier warrantee is that he will fix the water treatment equipment such that it operates within design parameters. If you purchased a cooling system that was designed properly, the cooling tower will not scale when operating within design paramaters.

"I would assume that EVAPCO could be considered an independent, qualifed, disinterested, third party, since it is their equipment that they are putting it on. Maybe they got tired of providing a warranty for their cooling towers when using traditional water treatment? If traditional water treatment was working so well, why would they look into PWT?"

Ev***** response: You are required to operate the cooling tower within the parameters. If you operate outside the water treatment parameters, the warranty on the cooling tower is voided.

Corrosion and Scale Control
To control corrosion and scale, the water chemistry of the recirculating water must be maintained within certain parameters. The specific measures required vary from system to system and are dependent on the chemistry of the make-up water, the metallurgy of the piping and heat transfer devices exposed to the recirculating water, and the temperatures at which the system will be operating. Bleed/blowdown, the continuous flow of a small portion of the recirculating water to a drain, is used to control the concentration of dissolved solids. On rare occasions this may be adequate to control scale and corrosion. More often, however, chemical scale and corrosion inhibitors are necessary, which raise the allowable level of dissolved solids without the risk of scale and corrosion.

Chemically treated water should be kept within the guidelines given in Table 7. In cases where bleed/blowdown alone is being employed for corrosion and scale control, without chemical treatment, your water treatment specialist may recommend more conservative limits than those shown in Table 7.

Table 7 – Typical Quality Guidelines for Chemically Treated Circulating Water
Property of Water Recommended Level
pH 6.5 to 9.0*
Hardness as CaCO3 30 to 750 ppm2
Alkalinity as CaCO3 500 ppm maximum2
Total Dissolved Solids 1500 ppm maximum
Conductivity 2400 micromhos3
Chlorides 250 ppm maximum as Cl 410 ppm maximum as NaCl
Sulfates 250 ppm maximum
Silica 150 ppm maximum

http://www3.baltimoreaircoil.com/en...HBii2007_N10_Maint_Cross_Tower_rev_200612.pdf

"I could be wrong..."

Yes you are.


"Why is Evapco the only cooling tower company selling magnets?"

Even a broken clock indicates the correct time twice a day

 

[H20Girl]

bimr,
You are correct in that:
Clearwater Systems' use of the term "Cold Pasteurization" would appear to be misused or even misguiding, however catchy it may sound.

Dolphin systems are not certified by the FDA as a food process disinfection device, or a medical device, to my knowledge.

Does it help treat water in cooling towers for some (or any) applications? I have no idea, or personal experience regarding it, so I will withhold judgment.

Is EVAPCO using it? Appears so, for whatever reason.

Note: It is much more flashy in the EVAPCO version. Lot's of cool lights flashing and all...

My conclusion. Nice packaging.

H2OGirl