Does anyone know the latest on the EPA Phase 3 and CARB Tier 3 standards for handheld power equipment and if the manufactures are meeting it? I'd like to know if 2 strokes will still be around for small power equip such as trimmers, blowers and chainsaws etc. From what I see CARB Tier 3 standards for 50 to 80cc are set for 2005 and later. Does this mean there will be no further tightening from the 2005 emission standard? I haven't found the proposed EPA Phase 3 standards on the EPA site. But I assume CARB standard are tighter except for 50cc, which will be aligned with EPA.
Tek-Tips is the largest IT community on the Internet today!
Members share and learn making Tek-Tips Forums the best source of peer-reviewed technical information on the Internet!
-
Congratulations MintJulep on being selected by the Eng-Tips community for having the most helpful posts in the forums last week. Way to Go!
EPA Phase 3 and CARB Tier 3 for Power Equipment
- Thread starter Mechie10
- Start date
Try searching here:
Interesting question on handhelds. Though government fleet buses have been up and running for about 4 years now, we are just getting started on upgrades to pre-2007 highway trucks, mobile, and off-highway equipment. It's looking to be very costly. It goes in sequence; government fleets, government contractors, public. I'm in the front group with heels dug in.
- Thread starter
- #4
The small off-road engine regulations are available at
There are a large number of manufacturer-qualified small engines meeting 2006 regulations, including both 2-cycle & 4-cycle gasoline engines. From some earlier reading, I believe the 2-cycles use one or more of the following: air inection, improved swirl combustion chambers, catalytic converts, catalyst-coated mufflers. HUSQVARNA uses catalytic converts for chain saws, etc. @ $15 each.
The Chinese & Japanese 2-strokers rely on improved combustion, in some cases giving better performance by turning more fuel to power!
2006 Certified Spark-Ignition Small Off-Road Engines:
There are a large number of manufacturer-qualified small engines meeting 2006 regulations, including both 2-cycle & 4-cycle gasoline engines. From some earlier reading, I believe the 2-cycles use one or more of the following: air inection, improved swirl combustion chambers, catalytic converts, catalyst-coated mufflers. HUSQVARNA uses catalytic converts for chain saws, etc. @ $15 each.
The Chinese & Japanese 2-strokers rely on improved combustion, in some cases giving better performance by turning more fuel to power!
2006 Certified Spark-Ignition Small Off-Road Engines:
Seems one can no longer use crude oil straight from the backyard well.
For two-stroke air-cooled gasoline engines with catalytic converters, use unleaded gasoline and a low sulfur, low ashing oil that meets JASO FB or ISO EGB specifications. Don't use outboard motor oil or gasoline
il ratios lower than 33:1.
-- Operator's Manual for Husqvarna's 357XP 359 chainsaws.
From Echo: WARRANTY STATEMENT INCLUDING EPA PHASE 2 CALIFORNIA TIER III EMISSION WARRANTY [anyone know whether Echo uses catalytic onverts?]
"This ECHO two-stroke engine power product is a quality-engineered unit which has been manufactured to exact tolerances to provide superior performance. To help ensure the performance of the unit, it is required to use two-stroke oil which meets the ISO-L-EGD Standard per ISO/CD 13738 and JASO M345/FC/FD Standards. ECHO Power Blend™ Two-Stroke Oil is a premium two-stroke oil specifically formulated to meet ISO-L-EGD (ISO/CD 13738) and JASO M345/FC/FD Standards. The use of two-stroke oils designed for other applications, such as for outboard motors or lawnmowers can result in severe engine damage, and will void your two-stroke engine warranty.
Emission related parts are covered for 2 years regardless of two-stroke oil used, per the statement listed in the EPA or California Emission Defect Warranty Explanation."
Besides buying oil from the equipment dealers, the major oil companies have the specified oils. From Chevron:
"OLOA 9362 – A premium air-cooled two-stroke cycle engine lubricant additive system designed to meet TISI, API TC, JASO FA, FB, FC, ISO EGD and beyond. It is designed for air-cooled two-stroke cycle engine lubricant use in high-performance air-cooled engines in low to severe duty; uses include motorcycles, chain saws, string trimmers, snow and leaf blowers."
For two-stroke air-cooled gasoline engines with catalytic converters, use unleaded gasoline and a low sulfur, low ashing oil that meets JASO FB or ISO EGB specifications. Don't use outboard motor oil or gasoline
il ratios lower than 33:1. -- Operator's Manual for Husqvarna's 357XP 359 chainsaws.
From Echo: WARRANTY STATEMENT INCLUDING EPA PHASE 2 CALIFORNIA TIER III EMISSION WARRANTY [anyone know whether Echo uses catalytic onverts?]
"This ECHO two-stroke engine power product is a quality-engineered unit which has been manufactured to exact tolerances to provide superior performance. To help ensure the performance of the unit, it is required to use two-stroke oil which meets the ISO-L-EGD Standard per ISO/CD 13738 and JASO M345/FC/FD Standards. ECHO Power Blend™ Two-Stroke Oil is a premium two-stroke oil specifically formulated to meet ISO-L-EGD (ISO/CD 13738) and JASO M345/FC/FD Standards. The use of two-stroke oils designed for other applications, such as for outboard motors or lawnmowers can result in severe engine damage, and will void your two-stroke engine warranty.
Emission related parts are covered for 2 years regardless of two-stroke oil used, per the statement listed in the EPA or California Emission Defect Warranty Explanation."
Besides buying oil from the equipment dealers, the major oil companies have the specified oils. From Chevron:
"OLOA 9362 – A premium air-cooled two-stroke cycle engine lubricant additive system designed to meet TISI, API TC, JASO FA, FB, FC, ISO EGD and beyond. It is designed for air-cooled two-stroke cycle engine lubricant use in high-performance air-cooled engines in low to severe duty; uses include motorcycles, chain saws, string trimmers, snow and leaf blowers."
JASO FX specs don't control phosphorus, although they do cover sulfated ash. I wonder if the cats are durable enough in the field to deliver the emissions reductions CARB is targeting? After all, without in-service testing how is a lumberjack supposed to know if he should make an emissions system warranty claim? Just doesn't seem to me to be a well thought-out (by CARB) countermeasure.
Husqvarna already had 200,000 hours of catalytic testing by 1998 (results presented to CARB then). They & other manufacturers continued testing means of meeting stricter standards. Everything went through cycles of testing & manufacturers' inputs in setting the standards.
Maybe some problems with dunderheads recycling used crankcase oil. Are you suggesting that smog tests are necessary?
Maybe some problems with dunderheads recycling used crankcase oil. Are you suggesting that smog tests are necessary?
No, just surprised that small engine catalytic converters can last 200,000 hours on generic 2T oils when 4-T automobile models require low-Phos lubricants to make 150Kmi.
The auto OEMs once got in trouble with regulators for certifying their CAFE numbers using 5W-20 oils when it became clear to the regulators that that grade wasn't widely deployed in the field, so some of the targeted gains weren't being realized. Not knowing much about catalytic converters I just wondered if cats on 2T engines might constitute a similar technology 'loophole'. Apparently not.
The auto OEMs once got in trouble with regulators for certifying their CAFE numbers using 5W-20 oils when it became clear to the regulators that that grade wasn't widely deployed in the field, so some of the targeted gains weren't being realized. Not knowing much about catalytic converters I just wondered if cats on 2T engines might constitute a similar technology 'loophole'. Apparently not.
I didn't mean a single small engine catalytic converter was tested or could last 200,000 hours -- that would be 22.8 years running 24/7! There is maybe longterm Japanese data for motorbikes.
Probably all small engine manufacturers have warranties with oil specifications like Echo's (above). Generic oil producers will adapt to the mfr. requirements & standards (& cost more).
There is longterm data for motorbikes, motorcycles, snowmobiles, etc. Some synthetic oils meet standards for both air-cooled & water-cooled engines. Klotz has an 'ash-free' oil that "Meets and exceeds all manufacturer warranty requirements when a JASO FC, ISO-L-EGD+, A.P.I. TC or TC-W3 lubricant is required."
"AMSOIL Synthetic 100:1 Pre-Mix 2-Cycle Oil is recommended for all pre-mix applications specifying TC-W3, API TC and JASO FD."
Probably all small engine manufacturers have warranties with oil specifications like Echo's (above). Generic oil producers will adapt to the mfr. requirements & standards (& cost more).
There is longterm data for motorbikes, motorcycles, snowmobiles, etc. Some synthetic oils meet standards for both air-cooled & water-cooled engines. Klotz has an 'ash-free' oil that "Meets and exceeds all manufacturer warranty requirements when a JASO FC, ISO-L-EGD+, A.P.I. TC or TC-W3 lubricant is required."
"AMSOIL Synthetic 100:1 Pre-Mix 2-Cycle Oil is recommended for all pre-mix applications specifying TC-W3, API TC and JASO FD."
I am pretty familiar with all those specifications and again they don't include a provision for catalyst compatibility, nor a phosphorus limit like automotive oils do, so I don't see how they automatically ensure 2T catalyst durability. I guess the catalysts used in 2T converters must be more resistant to poisoning than those used in automobiles.
- Status
Similar threads
