engine reconditioning 1

[macquari]

I was wondering how the engine reconditioning industry is going in the states.
In Australia the cost of reco engines for pre 90's cars is catching up to the market value creating more "mechanical" write offs.We are finding the viability of a lot of alloy heads is dropping due to softening and cracking/warping due to thin castings.
A percentage can be repaired but the cost blows out and leaves you with an unuseable bottom end if not repairable.
To be competetive large companies resort to using cheap inferior parts which often fail causing more damage or in the best case warranty repairs and more down time negating the original cost saving.They also try to use cheap labour leading to poor workmanship and good machinists going to other industries.
The only companies who are surviving are large diesel and performance shops who don't take short cuts but charge that little bit more.
Is it the same story in the states and elsewhere?

 

[PackardV8]

Greetings, macquari, (any reference to the gov or the chair?)

There are two different factors at work here in the states. The domestic V8s, especially the SBC recon market has been decimated by the availability of $1295 crate motors out of Mexico. The performance custom market is being similarly impacted by the plethora of performance crate motors which are a decent value for the dollar, but not really a precision tool.

The import market is pretty much as you describe it. Several of the worst, most failure prone head designs, Ford V6, some Toyotas, are being re-engineered and reproduced by the aftermarket.

Which engine families are you seeing as the worst offenders?

thnx, jv.

 

[macquari]

G'Day PackardV8.
Thanks for the reply it sounds like you are having the same probs as we have with the cheap imports.A lot of wreckers began importing Jap motors years ago and really knocked the guts out of the reco industry and the government did nothing to help except reap in all their different fees and taxes.A lot of these importers were just wreckers cashing in, so when there was a problem the customer was up the creek.There were also a lot of American
V8s brought over but that was due to unavailability in Australia.
As for problems with the different engines it seems each company has its good and its bad engines whether local or imported, some have bad cranks eg toyota 3L diesels others like the mazda v6 have probs with heads, for example 7M Toyota 6cyl heads were so much trouble most companies stopped reco'ing them.
Another problem was wick seals which originally had asbestos in them when this was banned there were a lot of leaky rear mains which weren't a problem previously then cheap components started appearing which weren't up to the job these were used to try to cut costs but backfired.
As you were saying its left up to after market companies to solve some OEM stuff ups and I've seen some good examples in the performance area but some bad ones with diesel crank copies which were off stroke and not hardened etc.
It would be interesting to talk to anyone involved in engine machining to get a few tips and pass on a few if needed I have only just found this site and there seems to be a lot of cluey people using it in all fields.
Cheers macquari

 

[ufe777]

Somewhate off topic Macquari but you mentioned a problem with 3L diesel toyota cranks. As someone who has been seriously looking at this powerplant could you elaborate at all?

 

[macquari]

You have to be careful with these engines they have a bad problem with picking up big end bearings in particular No4,but I have seen cranks with numerous failures.
Once heated the pin loses its hardness (it should be 55hrc)and most times develope a heat crack across the underside(main side)of the pin but can crack down oil holes as well, when checking a run of shafts it was not uncommon to only get 30% useable and the others reclaimable, or U/S.
Cranks that are cracked should be scrapped as if left the crack will generate across to radii and crank will break.
Those which are soft can be reclaimed by 3 methods.
1. stress relieve grind and nitride entire shaft,the oil pump drive crank keys and spiggot bearings must be removed prior to nitriding.
2. pregrind cracktest and metal spray damaged pin and grind shaft all over.
3. pregrind and submerge arc weld damaged pin and grind shaft all over,the only problem is the shaft is stress relieved and softens the other journals.
Not all reconditioners bother to repair or even check the shafts so if you buy a reco or used engine theres the chance the crank is no good.If you intend building your own motor take the time to crack test and hardness test the crank.Also check the undercut radii have not been ground into when reground as they should be radiused and rolled to retain their integrity.
Other probs can be snout damage, off stroke if shaft has been ground to a worn big end or bent(though not many cranks bend).
These problems also occur in 2L turbo and late 2L cranks (8 bolt).
I hope this helps you avoid any disasters good luck macquari.

 

[ufe777]

Thanks for that Macquari

 

[romke]

in my opinion the recon industry is not any more a viable business in developed markets. in europe there are not many left and most of them survive either because they export to less developed countries in Africa or because they have specialized in some niche market segment.

if you compare the situation with say 25 years ago you will notice that the average mileage before a recon was needed went up from say 125000 to 300000 km for cars which means that given the fact that most cars are driven less then 20000 km a year, a recon would be needed after say 15 years.

most people nowadays sell their car before large problems occur, and those who buy cars older then say 10 years just drive along as long as it goes and then wreck the car. they do not usually consider putting a recon engine in, unless the car is something special and worth keeping - and in that case specialized recon firms usually can supply a "made to measure" engine. but the days that every car once needed a recon engine are definetely over.

of course the situation varies by country, but generally speaking the more developed the market, the larger the number of inhabitants per area (which relates to the availability of good quality used cars) and the higher income per household, the more you will see a decline in the classic recon business.

another reason for the the decline of the recon industry in western europe is the opening up of eastern european markets: a lot of cars of say 6 years and older are exported to former eastblock countries.