Embed plate with load

[JStructsteel]

When designing for the attached sketch, would you design the top vs bottom any different?

 

[dik]

I prefer the lower detail, it's more obscure. The top one gives better visibilty of the connection if that's what is needed . The headed studs look like overkill and the ones near the bottom aren't very useful and can likely be eliminated. There was an earlier thread about using spacers on the shelf angle to prevent/reduce thermal transfer if that's needed.

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[milkshakelake]

It's the same thing. The forces and moments resolve exactly the same way. So you use whatever is more aesthetically pleasing or easier to install.

Agreed with Dik that the headed studs look very overkill, unless there is some serious loading on this, in which case the angle or weld might fail first. It's not a balanced or proportional design. Unless it's spaced out quite a bit instead of being continuous.

 

[KootK]

While there are some geometric reasons to like the vertical leg down option, the classic engineering preference is to turn the vertical leg upwards whenever possible. This is because the leg down solution creates prying action scenario that is difficult to assess: you just don't know where the center of compression is with any accuracy.

My comments here assume that the primary welds between the angle and connection plate are the welds above and below the angle.

 

[driftLimiter]

The reactions to the anchors are different in these scenarios when an out of plane load is applied at the angle leg that is protruding. But if it is truly just a shelf then I agree with above, nothing ever is only vertical for me it seems so that's why I bring this up. Also the studs don't look overkill to me but its a relative thing, Warehouse shelf angle in seismic area, you might not have enough studs ".

 

[JStructsteel]

Thanks all.

My final design on the studs is not complete, but having 4 or 6 studs on a plate is not overkill in my mind. Especially if they misplace the plate and now the load is more eccentric.

Jim

 

[Brad805]

Studs are cheap and misalignment is always a reality. If 6 leads to a thinner plate or alleviates your concerns, done deal.

 

[dik]

With the cost, thicker plate material is generally the least costly.

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[Brad805]

In most cases I would agree Dik, but thicker plates cause different problems when you have rebar. HCA's take about 20s to install. Those I work with (precast) would blow their top if I suggested a 5/8" or 3/4" plate for a connection like this, but a few extra HCA's would not be noticed.

 

[dik]

By thicker, we're likely talking about 1/8"s of an inch... and if rebar problems, the added studs may be a problem, too.

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[Brad805]

I have dealt with endless calls from site. Hey, this was cast a little low or this is different, or that moved. Extra HCA's are your friend.

 

[JStructsteel]

Also, I am close to one edge on one side of the plate. That is not helping with my capacity.

 

[CrabbyT]

If you put the vertical leg up (and depending on the environment you're in), you should consider drilling some drain holes every so often to prevent water from accumulating and corroding the angle.

Also, this thread seems relevant.

https://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=453882

 

[dik]

I've not ever drilled drain holes, and have assumed the angle deflects downwards to drain. If exposed to elements, the angle would be HDG.

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik