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emailing drawings and parts back and forth to vendors 4

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arcticcatmatt

arcticcatmatt

Mechanical
Mar 1, 2005
180
We have an outside vendor that has started to do some work for us recently and we are running into problems. I know what the problem is but I am having a hard time explaining it to management.

Lets call my fellow employee E and the vendor V for the example. E makes a part and drawing and sends both files via email to the vendor in solidworks format.

V makes the part and sends it to us, all is good. 2 months later we need the part again for a different machine, E has also revised the part. He emails the vendor the SW drawing and part again.

V clicks the drawing from the email and prints and makes the part. The problem is that V did not know of a revision because when he opened it from his email it was showing the original part from 2 months ago.

In an attempt to show this to management, I demonstrated how when you open the drawing right from your email, SW creates a part in your temp folder. When it gets opened from a new email it still references that old part. And when it gets emailed back to E, the drawing references the part that we have on the network.

Long story short.. its a referencing mess. I have told them they can't keep emailing drawings/parts back and forth like that. They either need to only send a PDF or DXF.. or (most preferable) they need to be all be working from the same "basket".. our network.

I looked at pack and go and that doesn't seem to solve the problem either.

This sending drawings back and forth crap has caused multiple problems in the last month. Of course, you don't find out until it has cost you. The last one just created $21,500 in junk parts.

Can anyone advise me on how to word this to management to create an effective solution?
 
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True.
I had been called into offices asking why parts were wrong.
When checking my drawing against the vendor drawing, one was marked up by purchasing.
Two of the idiots were fired.

I also had two managers fired for sending military drawings to China to save $$. No way was I going to get blame for that one!!

Chris
SolidWorks/PDMWorks 08 3.1
AutoCAD 08
ctopher's home (updated Aug 5, 2008)
ctopher's blog
SolidWorks Legion
 
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Well meetings are over.. vendor (supplier) is leaving. 4 designers together in a room with 4 bosses aka management that have never used solidworks.

Talk about micromanaged.

Anyways, they will not allow them and us to work from the same "basket".. so.. daily we will be FTPing solidworks parts and drawings and assemblies back and forth.

So this is like two designers, working on the same stuff right next to each other, but they are each keeping thousands of parts with the same file names/revisions in two different baskets.

They don't want to listen to me even though I was brought in to advise.

Maybe when they make another 20,000 dollar mistake, they will listen to my advice and the advice I showed the boss from you others in this thread.

Oh.. and you guys will like this. The boss from the supplier told me he can out draw/design me in CADRA (2D) any day of the week. He said 2D is a million times faster than solidworks and solidworks is worth nothing but a pretty picture.

With that kind of outlook on the situation, its no wonder things keep happening the way they are. I had nothing more to say to them and left the meeting.
 
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"Yeah, yeah, yeah, Matt. Whatever. Look, the important thing is that you use the right cover sheets for your TPS reports."

I don't envy you.

By the way, perhaps you can ask the supplier to draw this in precious CADRA--in 2D:
(If it takes a million sections to do it right, that's what I'd expect to see.)



Jeff Mowry
A people who value security over freedom will soon find they have neither.
 
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arcticcatmatt,
I worked with an engineer that made a $10k mistake because he decided to make his own models that were different than mine. He had '0' tolerances and GD&T on his models/drawings.
The parts could not be fixed because they were all undersized.
He argued and fought with the machinists' for the mistake.
He was transferred to production eng and was not allowed to work with designs anymore.

The only way to fix the problem is to have 'all' models in one place and training for 'all' users, have managers sit in some of the meetings.
I did this every week for 6 months and it worked.

Chris
SolidWorks/PDMWorks 08 3.1
AutoCAD 08
ctopher's home (updated Aug 5, 2008)
ctopher's blog
SolidWorks Legion
 
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That spiral thing is funny.. that cracked me up.

I have a 4,500 part assembly on my screen right now utilizing multiple configurations. Only way to get that in CADRA is to print out 4,500 drawings, rip them in two pieces, and lay them on top of each other.

Its only a matter of time before this bites us in the butt again.

Thanks for the responses all!
 
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there are two methods to manage this that I have experienced in similar situations.

One is, as mentioned, a shared database. This is successful, requires input from IT and both maintenance and vigilance for continued success.

The other is how codevelopment projects are portioned. Your remote vendor should be given tasks or work areas that are as self contained as possible. Interface between their and your parts or assemblies can then be minimized and better controlled. This sort of 'black-box' design can be managed very successfully with minimal data integration headaches.

In your instant case, I have two comments. I think it is unwise to be emailing both part models and their drawings. It seems you are doing so with no method of transferral log: sign offs, unique file names, dates, revisions, etc. Continuing to do so requires some form of vigilance such as the form sample above. Others are to include static copies, paper prints, of emailed contents, to record their revision. Unique part and drawing names is other method to de-link parametric historical relationships.

My other comment is based on your vendor's attitude, assuming only from your quoted one liner: with this sort of old-boy attitude you must either take complete ownership of the electronic data transfer integrity, develop method and implementation and checks, or you must take a complete hands off approach, establish clear requirements and let them manage it successfuly or fail completely.

Whichever method you use I found on codevelopment projects that you must shout and scream to everyone exactly how you are sharing data.

In my own business I never email live drawings. I frequently email models and pdf's of drawings, and I keep a separate folder of copies of files that were emailed. And in the case of manufacturing, I never say use drawing/model/revision..., I always include the pdf and model with purchase order with explicit instruction to use them only.
 
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Not to be an ass or anything, Matt, but I sort of hope this bites your company in the can--and soon. Seriously, this isn't a difficult problem to solve (particularly when everyone here has solved it already). Failure to put in a little thought and consideration over absurd wishful thinking ought to lead to a little pain.

And we wonder why US businesses struggle? (Sorry, just had quite the political conversation with a friend along these lines.)



Jeff Mowry
A people who value security over freedom will soon find they have neither.
 
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pierdesign said:
My other comment is based on your vendor's... old-boy attitude you must either take complete ownership... or you must take a complete hands off approach, establish clear requirements and let them manage it successfuly or fail completely.
Click to expand...

I just thought I'd strip that down to bare essentials. I would also add that perhaps it is time to look for new vendors.
 
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articcatmatt

I'm new to SW but I owned a machine shop for 12 years. When I didn't make the part a company ordered it became my part.

Machine shops that use CAD/CAM software (excluding mold shops) really only need 2D files. The 3D part is created when the CAD/CAM programmer creates tool paths.

Age is no excuse for not doing a job correctly, young or old. Go slow and try to understand what’s going on at the vendors end. What I see is a problem that needs to be fixed. The group that comes up with the solution is more valuable than the group that figures out who created the problem.

Bruce
 
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We work with a CM in China on everything. Our method of delivery is a forum. I believe this is even better than FTP, which is what we used to use. We send emails referencing the thread and post, but most know to just go to the forum. We make PCB's, issue artwork revisions, ECN BOM notices, mechanical prints, 3d Step files for molding, and testing docs all through the forum. Directions are indicated in the post.

All here know how valueable a forum can be. If you start working with us, we give you an account on the forum. It also offers complete transparency to the entire design cycle, so management can get on, see whats going on, and have something to talk about in their meetings.

rfus
 
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"Machine shops that use CAD/CAM software (excluding mold shops) really only need 2D files. The 3D part is created when the CAD/CAM programmer creates tool paths."

Once you start using the 3D files, you'll wonder why you didn't use them before.
IMO, using 2D for CAM takes more time...less efficient.

Chris
SolidWorks/PDMWorks 08 3.1
AutoCAD 08
ctopher's home (updated Aug 5, 2008)
ctopher's blog
SolidWorks Legion
 
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ctoper

All my CAM programming was done in 2-1/2 axis (Gibbs and Mastercam). I was a production shop. Runs were between 200 and 1000 pcs. Tool paths used to important.

Can you give me an idea of how 3d is more efficient? Use something simple like creating a pocket with a boss in the middle. The top of the boss being 1/2 the depth of the pocket. Not to much detail just a starting point.

Thanks
Bruce
 
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It's manual vs auto efficiency.
Importing a 3D model takes little effort other than selecting tools from libraries and other data. The data can be saved and used for a similar part or if the part changes. 2D you need to manually input the data.

To me it's the difference between pencil dwgs vs CAD dwgs.

Chris
SolidWorks/PDMWorks 08 3.1
AutoCAD 08
ctopher's home (updated Aug 5, 2008)
ctopher's blog
SolidWorks Legion
 
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ctopher

When you say manually input data, do you mean the depth of cut (Z)?

Using 3d would you select a pocket (1" deep) and then select a step down distance in Z (.248 leaving .008 on the floor for clean-up)?

Bruce
 
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Bojyna, I agree with you on very simple 2 ½ machining but even then, imagine you have say 20 holes all of different depth is it easier to work to a 3D model or cut 20 sections? Also some kind of hole recognition can be very useful, I am not sure if solidworks does this but certainly this is something you lose with a dumb solid.

Once you get into any really 3D work, not just moulds it is the only way to go, imagine a cylinder block on a car.

Take a look at this link, yes I am sure it could be done with a series of set ups and jigs but how much slower would it be?

Solid models preferably in native formats are the only way to go for any real 3D parts, sorry this is going off topic somewhat.
 
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If you can't force them to update their models, can you at least compel them to send you their models to check?
 
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That's the vendors fault, not yours. You are trying to hard to fix your vendors problems. Notify him of the issue. If he doesn't correct it but insists on charging you anyway, kill the contract and sue. If not, move on to another vendor if you can. I work with plenty in several different discipines and only rarely encounter this issue.

Matt Lorono
CAD Engineer/ECN Analyst
Silicon Valley, CA
Lorono's SolidWorks Resources
Co-moderator of Solidworks Yahoo! Group
and Mechnical.Engineering Yahoo! Group
 
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