emailing drawings and parts back and forth to vendors 4

[arcticcatmatt]

We have an outside vendor that has started to do some work for us recently and we are running into problems. I know what the problem is but I am having a hard time explaining it to management.

Lets call my fellow employee E and the vendor V for the example. E makes a part and drawing and sends both files via email to the vendor in solidworks format.

V makes the part and sends it to us, all is good. 2 months later we need the part again for a different machine, E has also revised the part. He emails the vendor the SW drawing and part again.

V clicks the drawing from the email and prints and makes the part. The problem is that V did not know of a revision because when he opened it from his email it was showing the original part from 2 months ago.

In an attempt to show this to management, I demonstrated how when you open the drawing right from your email, SW creates a part in your temp folder. When it gets opened from a new email it still references that old part. And when it gets emailed back to E, the drawing references the part that we have on the network.

Long story short.. its a referencing mess. I have told them they can't keep emailing drawings/parts back and forth like that. They either need to only send a PDF or DXF.. or (most preferable) they need to be all be working from the same "basket".. our network.

I looked at pack and go and that doesn't seem to solve the problem either.

This sending drawings back and forth crap has caused multiple problems in the last month. Of course, you don't find out until it has cost you. The last one just created $21,500 in junk parts.

Can anyone advise me on how to word this to management to create an effective solution?

 

[CorBlimeyLimey]

Just showing them the $ cost should be enough. If it's not, there is no hope for them.

A simple way to overcome the problem is to add the revision number (or date) to the drawing being sent.

 

[TheTick]

I never send featured models to a vendor. Vendors get a neutral (parasolid/IGES/STEP) or deparameterized SW solid. Drawings are sent via eDrawings or PDF. File names are always tagged with a suffix indicating revision and date sent.

This way, I can keep a record of exactly what I ordered from a vendor.

 

[arcticcatmatt]

Thanks for the replies.

I forgot to mention that we create parts that this vendor makes. And they also create (design) parts for us.. so its a two way street. If they create a part that we need in an assembly, we need that SW part file, and vice versa.

Therefor, sending just DXF's or PDF's, isn't a real solution.

Am I correct in assuming the only way to handle this properly is that us and the vendor are working from the same source, our network. Then there is only one controlled copy of the drawing thats referencing the one controlled part.

Geeze, the way they are doing it now.. I have found "PART A" in email temp folders, our network folder, and the vendors desktop. Who knows where whatever drawing they are opening is referencing to.

 

[Theophilus]

I do as TheTick mentioned above, sending only "dumb" formats. I also ALWAYS Zip what I send, since then the integrity of the file is better insured on arrival. The Zip file is always labeled with the prefix of the date in this exact format:
081104-WidgetMaster-3000-Proto.zip

The vendor will never have a Temp-file mix-up like you mentioned with this file convention, and OUGHT to always remove the attachment from the email and put it into a directory similarly named:
Frustrated-Client\081104\081104-WidgetMaster-3000-Proto.zip

The date/directories are always in both alphabetical and chronological order in this case, making the newest revision always float to the top/bottom, depending on the order selected in Explorer.



Jeff Mowry

http://www.industrialdesignhaus.com

A people who value security over freedom will soon find they have neither.

 

[ctopher]

I agree about the "dumb" formats. Send the drawings in PDF format with revisions.

Chris
SolidWorks/PDMWorks 08 3.1
AutoCAD 08
ctopher's home (updated Aug 5, 2008)
ctopher's blog
SolidWorks Legion

 

[TheTick]

Prudence is cheaper than trust, and far more effective.

 

[CorBlimeyLimey]

Whichever format is used, an FTP site for transferring files would be better than email.

 

[drawoh]

arcticcatmatt,

This is the exact problem that used to occur with the old, paper drawings. You revise your drawing, and the fabricator or assembler recovers his favorite copy from his desk drawer.

Instruct your vendor to delete or archive any drawings and models you send them, once they have finished fabricating. Systematically send them current copies of your files when you do a new order.

When you do a revision, send the fabricator your revised stuff, and explicitly instruct them to delete or archive whatever it is they already have.

The standard design change rule is that if you change form, fit or function, you must generate a new drawing and part number. If you do this, your drawing and model will be new, and there will be no problems with the old one.

JHG

 

[TheTick]

Being in R&D, I usually don't deal in production parts. I expect our ECN system to keep vendors current on that stuff.

As for prototype parts, I usually include the file names on the purchase order (i.e. make parts per "MyBitchinInvention--Rev A 04Nov2008.IGS" and "MyBitchinInvention--Rev A 04Nov2008.PDF").

 

[arcticcatmatt]

Even if we tell the vendor to delete all previous copies of the files.. there are still parts that were created in their computer temp folder if they opened them straight from the email.

Not implying anything here by any means but I am instructing men in their 60's that are very new to solidworks.

I can tell them do this do that do this all I want. They will follow instructions one day and then do whatever they want the next.

When there are multiple copies of parts and drawings floating around, god knows what the drawings are referencing. I found one earlier in a test that was referencing a model that was in a temp folder that contained copies of all attachments opened via email.

 

[Theophilus]

I'd make sure each file you send out is dated (as was recommended above) such that if they choose to screw up, the cost lands squarely on them. You order parts from the files you send--what more can you do? If they pay for it a few times, I'm betting someone over there will decide to pay better attention to their sloppy practices.



Jeff Mowry

http://www.industrialdesignhaus.com

A people who value security over freedom will soon find they have neither.

 

[smcadman]

We have an FTP site we use for similar cases like this. We and they cut and paste the model out of our transfer folder so no old files are in there. Waiting 10 minutes for an upload is cheaper and quicker than correcting errors on finished units later on.

Flores

 

[MadMango]

I third the use of an FTP site where your vendors can log-in to extract the correct files. This is something that your IT department should be able to set-up quickly and cheaply.

 

[ctopher]

Major aerospace companies require the use of FTP.

Chris
SolidWorks/PDMWorks 08 3.1
AutoCAD 08
ctopher's home (updated Aug 5, 2008)
ctopher's blog
SolidWorks Legion

 

[arcticcatmatt]

We have used FTP to send them files/folders over 12 meg.

So say we put PART A and the drawing of PART A into the FTP folder. The vendor takes that and puts it on his desktop.

2 months later we revise the part and order it again. We put PART A and drawing of PART A back in the FTP folder. The vendor then puts them on his desktop (for example) and overwrites the current file. This is assuming he is going to put every file in the same folder every, if he doesn't, he could have two versions in different folders.

Weather they receive the parts via FTP or email.. the referencing problem can still happen if all the rules are not followed precisely.

We also had them email back a drawing and had a guy here open it, that drawing over wrote the model that we had on our network (as we all know thats possible).

 

[CorBlimeyLimey]

That is why you must include the revision and or date in your transferred files.

As mentioned above, you should not be transferring the part model, unless it is needed for CAM ... and even then a dumb format would be safer.

If you are including the part model just for them to read the drawing ... don't. Use PDF or eDrawing or detached instead. eDrawing is my preference.

 

[macduff]

Ok, here's my take on this. Parts being made from any documentation via electronic or hardcopy should be sent through purchasing using a PO with current revision, which is usually required for R & D and Production hardware. This is usually the safest route, but still leaves room for possible error. So, I made up a form that document’s everything about a electronic data that is attach along with the PO. The supplier will then receive the PO along with the electronic data sheet. This way I'm covered on my end as far as transferring data however it was sent. See attached Excel file and let me know your thoughts. I'll bet you'll like it. Also, when I fill this out and it's sent to the supplier, I put a copy in the PDM vault for safe keeping.

arcticcatmatt, "vendors sell hot dogs, suppliers make parts". That's an old saying that a buyer once told me. I got a kick out of it.

Very Best,

Colin Fitzpatrick (aka Macduff)
Mechanical Designer
Solidworks 2008 SP 4.0
Dell 490 XP Pro SP 2
Xeon CPU 3.00 GHz 3.00 GB of RAM
nVida Quadro FX 3450 512 MB
3D Connexion-SpaceExplorer

 

[ctopher]

Colin,
Nice form! I like it.

The problem I had with my last company (you know which one) is purchasing loved to print & markup drawings to their liking thinking they are saving $$. (i.e. material, tol, & rev changes)


Chris
SolidWorks/PDMWorks 08 3.1
AutoCAD 08
ctopher's home (updated Aug 5, 2008)
ctopher's blog
SolidWorks Legion

 

[macduff]

You got to be #$%&ing kidding me! I bet engineering got blame when things didn't go together too!

Colin Fitzpatrick (aka Macduff)
Mechanical Designer
Solidworks 2008 SP 4.0
Dell 490 XP Pro SP 2
Xeon CPU 3.00 GHz 3.00 GB of RAM
nVida Quadro FX 3450 512 MB
3D Connexion-SpaceExplorer