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Eavor-Loop 2
- Thread starter cmoreride
- Start date
Not really sure what the figure is showing ... maybe hot fluid on the left being cooled travelling 2km underground then getting "pumped" back to the origin.
Mind you Toronto already uses the cold Lake Ontario water as a heat sink (for building ac).
another day in paradise, or is paradise one day closer ?
Mind you Toronto already uses the cold Lake Ontario water as a heat sink (for building ac).
another day in paradise, or is paradise one day closer ?
JoshPlumSE
Structural
Rb1957 -
Yeah, that's pretty much what it sounds like. Not sure how economically feasible it is for most areas though. That's the challenge this company will have to overcome.
Iceland, for example, does something very similar to this for most of their power. And, their carbon grid is essentially carbon free. That works really well for them since they have so many naturally occurring volcanic vents and such. Expanding this type of concept where ever it is feasibly is a great idea. Just imagine harnessing all the energy in the "old faithful" type of geysers in yellowstone park.
Yeah, that's pretty much what it sounds like. Not sure how economically feasible it is for most areas though. That's the challenge this company will have to overcome.
Iceland, for example, does something very similar to this for most of their power. And, their carbon grid is essentially carbon free. That works really well for them since they have so many naturally occurring volcanic vents and such. Expanding this type of concept where ever it is feasibly is a great idea. Just imagine harnessing all the energy in the "old faithful" type of geysers in yellowstone park.
Closed geothermal system. Traditional geothermal installations are open and inject water into underground thermically active zones to extract steam. The steam is used in turbine generators and vented to atmosphere. Apparently this is a low temperature application, similar to a geothermal heat pump already employed in numerous residential and commercial systems. Low temperature Heat is extracted, rather than steam. The heat will be used for some purpose and the cooled fluid is returned to recirculate underground. It seems to be an adaptation of typical low temp geothermal heat pump systems already in use, this one constructed by horizontal drilling techniques, and perhaps making other proprietary enhancements about which little useful information is currently being shared in their video. The economics are probably reasonable given a compatible application of the extracted heat.
If you think I am wrong about anything I say, then please do correct me, but please also refrain from condescending lectures to myself and others here, in the preschool level details of chem, math and physics. Thank you. I will try to do the same.
If you think I am wrong about anything I say, then please do correct me, but please also refrain from condescending lectures to myself and others here, in the preschool level details of chem, math and physics. Thank you. I will try to do the same.
JoshPlumSE
Structural
1503-44 -
I think you explained it pretty well. Certainly better than I could have!
The questions I have about this type of system can't be easily answered.... How much power does the system generate? How much are the anticipated construction costs? What about anticipated maintenance costs? And, how would that compare to more traditional methods of generating power?
I'm not poking holes in this concept, just pointing out that the answer to those questions are what really determines the viability of the system.
I think you explained it pretty well. Certainly better than I could have!
The questions I have about this type of system can't be easily answered.... How much power does the system generate? How much are the anticipated construction costs? What about anticipated maintenance costs? And, how would that compare to more traditional methods of generating power?
I'm not poking holes in this concept, just pointing out that the answer to those questions are what really determines the viability of the system.
Understood. Since it isn't new technology, but more rolling together established techniques and coupling some proprietary features they don't mention in detail, such as what heat transfer fluid they are using, and installing an otherwise conventional geothermal system via horizontal drilling, there is no apparent reason to suspect the economics to be a limiting factor. Many geo, or hydrothermal systems are up and running already, including small systems for residential use that do not require living next to geysers or on top of volcanos to work. It also appears that they may have reduced the cost of installing and operating those systems, but hard to say for sure. No cost data was given, but it shouldn't be too hard to put together some cost projections based on current horizontal drilling costs, some typical geothermal systems and their heat transfer equipment and the costs of whatever client application they intend to couple to utilize the extracted heat. They don't mention a need for any exotic processes, machines or elements that have yet to be discovered, so I dont see why the concept wouldn't work. As for capacities, they say it is scalable, so how long is a piece of string. Probably depends only on how much of a project can be financed and other infrastructure questions, such as how far the cables need to be laid to connect up the electricity they might generate, or transportation limitations of delivering their equipment to a proposed site, etc. Given similar examples of this tech already function competitively today, it certainly doesn't appear to be impossible, or any less practical than ocean wave or solar power tower electrical generation schemes. I'm sure it is a simple matter of coupling it with the right client at the right location and securing the finance. Thats usually more difficult than rolling up a few existing technologies and making them work together. The trick is making use of low level heat at high efficiencies, rather than hi pressure steam, but complexity is far simpler.
Conventional geothermal plant operating in Kenya since 1981.
Conventional geothermal plant operating in Kenya since 1981.
I understand that water vapour is a much more significant GHG than CO2, just sayin'.
I did not know about open geothermal systems, I assumed that closed would've been the "natural" approach, appreciate the education.
Using water as the thermal fluid makes a lot of sense, from the accident/spillage point of view.
I would why having the heat exchange happen over 2km improves the system ? There are certainly more set up costs. It may be that it doesn't have to be as deep, which would be important.
another day in paradise, or is paradise one day closer ?
I did not know about open geothermal systems, I assumed that closed would've been the "natural" approach, appreciate the education.
Using water as the thermal fluid makes a lot of sense, from the accident/spillage point of view.
I would why having the heat exchange happen over 2km improves the system ? There are certainly more set up costs. It may be that it doesn't have to be as deep, which would be important.
another day in paradise, or is paradise one day closer ?
As I understand, the older open steam producing geothermal systems are falling out of favour mostly because the injected, then superheated water returns to the surface often carrying various heavy metals. The water vapor is an additional concern, although it would not seem to amount to much in the grand scale of things, every little bit you can avoid is a good thing.
When you are after accumulating enough heat to be useful from relatively low temperature mediums, you need lots of surface area and the pipe needs to be smaller diameters for doing the snaking and bending without overstressing, so long lengths would be needed.
The depths are suitable for horizontal drilling, as radii tighter than of 1500 to 2500 ft would overstress the pipe, depending on diameters used, There they have to turn fast to the horizontal as they eventually intend to curve back up to the surface to complete the loop. Oil and gas wells of course don't need to do that.
They hinted at some proprietary thermal transfer fluid, which may only be water or brine with food coloring, who knows, but in general water is hard to beat and, as you say, much friendlier than glycol if it leaks. My guess is its water and M&M's green.
When you are after accumulating enough heat to be useful from relatively low temperature mediums, you need lots of surface area and the pipe needs to be smaller diameters for doing the snaking and bending without overstressing, so long lengths would be needed.
The depths are suitable for horizontal drilling, as radii tighter than of 1500 to 2500 ft would overstress the pipe, depending on diameters used, There they have to turn fast to the horizontal as they eventually intend to curve back up to the surface to complete the loop. Oil and gas wells of course don't need to do that.
They hinted at some proprietary thermal transfer fluid, which may only be water or brine with food coloring, who knows, but in general water is hard to beat and, as you say, much friendlier than glycol if it leaks. My guess is its water and M&M's green.
EdStainless
Materials
Because of the relatively low temperature in most geothermal systems once they bring the hot water (brine) to the surface they either dry it and feed a steam turbine (the hotter ones) or they use it to superheat a low boiling point liquid (often butane) which then drives the turbine.
The binary plants using a low boiling point working fluid are usually fully closed loop, with only minor gas venting (dissolved gases from the brine) being released.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
P.E. Metallurgy, consulting work welcomed
The binary plants using a low boiling point working fluid are usually fully closed loop, with only minor gas venting (dissolved gases from the brine) being released.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
P.E. Metallurgy, consulting work welcomed
- Thread starter
- #11
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- #12
oh dear, YouTube university.
did you listen to that ?
Pumping hot water into the crush to fracture it ... what can go wrong ??
And I'm not sure how they hope to pump cold water back to the surface.
At least a closed loop made some sort of sense.
another day in paradise, or is paradise one day closer ?
did you listen to that ?
Pumping hot water into the crush to fracture it ... what can go wrong ??
And I'm not sure how they hope to pump cold water back to the surface.
At least a closed loop made some sort of sense.
another day in paradise, or is paradise one day closer ?
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- Thread starter
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Calgary cleantech companies Questor and Eavor receive SDTC Sustainable Development Technology Canada funding.
Eavor Technologies Inc. is receiving $4.3 million to further develop the Eavor-Loop 2.0 geothermal system, which harvests heat from deep in the earth to be used for commercial heating applications, or for the generation of electricity using conventional heat-to-power engines.
Eavor Technologies Inc. is receiving $4.3 million to further develop the Eavor-Loop 2.0 geothermal system, which harvests heat from deep in the earth to be used for commercial heating applications, or for the generation of electricity using conventional heat-to-power engines.
Guest
cmoreride said:
$4.3 million of my tax money flushed down a deep hole by reinventing someone else's wheel. Guess we could say Ottawa has progressed with their flushing ambitions; they used to just send money down the toilet, but now they're going deep.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but they are not entitled to their own facts."
Guest
1503-44 said:
Except aluminum is not magnetic (just something I've picked up in a career in metals).
Now your mom's 351ci 69 Mustang - that is seriously magnetic! Hope it's the Cleveland and not the Windsor variant.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but they are not entitled to their own facts."
Only the garbage can's lid needs to have a magnet, right?
An entirely magnetic garbage can might affect the compass, gyros, or start up northern lights in the cabin, attract iron meteorites, or ... something. Might even heat up the aluminum cans when you threw them in there. You definitely would not want a dumpster fire up there.
An entirely magnetic garbage can might affect the compass, gyros, or start up northern lights in the cabin, attract iron meteorites, or ... something. Might even heat up the aluminum cans when you threw them in there. You definitely would not want a dumpster fire up there.
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