Durable, light-weight, eco-friendly plastic

[jcpalmer]

Hi,

I am looking for a plastic that is both durable, light weight and eco-friendly. It must also be cost-effective for mass production.

I currently use PVC; however, we are expanding retail to California, which has banned PVC for our type of product. Can you recommend anything?

The product itself is an inflatable object.

 

[Demon3]

The most eco-friendly polymers are probably the polyolefins PE and PP if one were to do life cycle analyses and compare properly.

Unfortunatly no-one is doing that so instead they go for solutions that feel on an emotional basis like they might be friendly.

So, given that PVC is actually a great plastic that lasts a long time and is self-extinguishing too and there is no reason to replace it, let's address your question with respect to New Germany (California).

Firstly we'd probably need to have an idea of the application and demands on the polymer. None of the polymers that are perceived to be friendly (PLA, PCL, PHB etc) have a viable costerformance ratio and I know that because it was my job to check that in the recent past. So there is no good solution to your situation at present. You can adopt a poorly performing expensive "friendly" polymer that probably hurts the environment or wait and see if this craziness reverses.

There is not any memory with less satisfaction than the memory of some temptation we resisted.
- James Branch Cabell

 

[jcpalmer]

Thanks Demon3 for your information thus far.

I can feel your pain when it comes to the PVC madness. In terms of consumers, New Germany ranks at the top. We are trying to go retail there and thus will have to abide by these PVC regulations (I think, more on this below).

Our plastics are used to create a floatable raft for use in pools, lakes and the ocean. The product does require a certain degree of ruggedness as we don't want it to explode or puncture during use. (I hope this is what you were referring to by application and demand, if not, please let me know).

We are seeking a more "eco-friendly" solution solely due to the fact that California is where the majority of our customer base currently exists. The product is meant for those 21+ because it involve drinking. I have a rudimentary understanding of the PVC ban in California. I suppose it would be a good idea to ask if you knew if the ban only revolved around children's toys?

Thanks again.

 

[Pud]

Here is link to an overview some of the thermoplastic elastomers.

All will be magnitude(s) more $$$ than PVC.

http://tinyurl.com/29q7mo

H

 

[patprimmer]

Do you mean it has to be both as in two out of the three listed requirements, or does both mean all three.

If te current product is a waterproof fabric like used in a "Rubber Ducky" polyurethane will do a better but somewhat more costly job than PVC.

If it is an unreinforced film, it will be fragile and somewhat prone to puncture and tearing, even if in PVC. If this might lead someone drowning, that might lead to litigation problems, especially if it is designed or recommended to be used in conjunction with the consumption of alcohol, and therefore I am reluctant to make a recommendation unless you can tell us what you actually require and we can all stop playing let try to guess what this guy actually requires.

Does it need food contact.
What level of UV light will it be exposed to.
Is it a flotation device for people.

I know that this does not jell with the ****wits that make laws about things they do not understand, but generally as a very rough rule of thumb, the more expensive something is, the more impact it has on carbon emissions during it's manufacture, and if it's a multiple use item, the more durable it is the less impact it has per use.

Other thermoplastics that are flexible and relatively tough in film form, from memory are:-
Polyester block co-polymers like Hytrel or Arnitel.
Nylon block copolymers like PEBAX.
Polyurethane.
EVA.
Bimodal PE.
Crosslinkable PE (not really a thermoplastic once cross linked).



Regards

eng-tips, by professional engineers for professional engineers
Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips Fora.

 

[jcpalmer]

Hi patprimmer,

Thanks for the comments. I wasn't sure about the policies of this forum so I tried to avoid "advertising" my product. You can see it at:

http://www.poolsidepong.com.

By "rugged" I didn't mean "rubber ducky" tough. Essentially, we'd like to maintain the look and feel of the product but we are searching for cheaper plastic alternatives (or the same price as PVC) that will allow for us to do business in California.

 

[patprimmer]

OK

It is made by thermoforming and welding. PVC is ideal for that, but a very good PE will do the job.

Regards

eng-tips, by professional engineers for professional engineers
Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips Fora.

 

[Demon3]

I agree PE is first choice for that product. Personally I would ask Borealis as I have had great experience with them as a supplier of polyolefins. You'll need a really good stabilization package to protect against the UV exposure. The UV package will need to be resistant to leaching out when in contact with water. Probably a polymeric HAS stabilizer in combination with Irganox 1330 would be a good place to start.

There is not any memory with less satisfaction than the memory of some temptation we resisted.
- James Branch Cabell

 

[patprimmer]

Borealis make a VERY tough film grade PE. I think it is a bimodal grade. It is used in Oz for a balloon or inflatable bag that goes into the mining industry.

As I understand it, they bore a hole in the rock, add explosives, put a self inflating PE bag into the hole over the explosive charge, inflate the bag then set off the charge. The bag contains the explosion in the hole long enough to significantly increase effectiveness in splitting the rock. That is one tough bag.

Regards

eng-tips, by professional engineers for professional engineers
Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips Fora.

 

[jcpalmer]

Hey all,

Thanks for this information, it's really helping me out. I am on with my manufacturer in China. He keeps mentioning 6P PVC as a plastic that isn't banned in California.

I keep telling him all vinyl chloride will be banned by 2009 but he is persistent. Is he speaking the truth?

He also told me PE would cost less but might not be as durable as the PVC.

 

[patprimmer]

I suspect he is wrong in the first instance, but correct in the second.

China might not be the bet source of a really tough PE film.

I know a guy in Melbourne who can make a very tough PE film. I suspect he would be pleased to export to your fabricator in China

Regards

eng-tips, by professional engineers for professional engineers
Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips Fora.

 

[Demon3]

Bimodal is one of their specialities. They interviewed me for a job several years ago and made mention on that as the way forward. Thanks for sharing that info about the explosives bag!

There is not any memory with less satisfaction than the memory of some temptation we resisted.
- James Branch Cabell

 

[PSPScott]

I was wondering if someone could give me a definitive answer about p6 pvc plastic being part of the ban this coming january in California. Will you no longer be allowed to sell products made of P6 PVC in the state? Thank you,

Scott