Drawing program for system-level wiring diagrams? 1

[MagicSmoker]

I'm curious as to what other engineers are using to draw system-level schematics (as compared to board-level). Like, for example, multiple VFDs and motors supplied by a genset showing individual wires between each, but otherwise representing each device with a generic, geometric shape. More specifically, for drawing basic installation diagrams in an owner's manual (we're a small company so guess who gets to not only design the boards AND write the documentation... yep, me).

Many years ago I used Visio to do this, but I don't recall liking it all that much. Then again, that may have been more because I don't like the task itself...

 

[DRWeig]

I sure do like Visio for things like that, but you may have different tastes.

DraftSight is a freebie from Dassault Systèmes. Very much like AutoCAD. I use it when showing board-level stuff and actual terminations.

Best to you,

Goober Dave

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[MagicSmoker]

Thanks for the reply DRWeig, even if it was yet another vote to suffer Visio (I just looked at it again and remembered why I dislike it so much - the learning curve is way too steep for someone that uses it once a year or two or three).

An informal poll of my colleagues at a couple of other companies we work with revealed that everyone used Visio (except for one) and none of them liked it; the lone exception uses E3 Wireworks, but didn't like it, either.

So, perusing the web for "visio alternative" I found "SmartDraw". They claim it is easier to use than Visio and it also includes a nice selection of "block diagram" type electrical symbols. It's also fairly reasonably priced at $200. So, unless I hear from anyone else here that is what I will likely try.

-JeffreyJ

 

[MacGyverS2000]

If you want another free CAD option, try DoubleCadXT... a real competitor to AutoCadLT.

Dan - Owner

http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

 

[VEBill]

My drafting colleagues use AutoCAD... ...for everything. I'm surprised they don't use it to draft memos.

 

[MagicSmoker]

I'm not really looking for a *free* program (though that never hurts, right?), nor a CAD program. Rather, I am looking for something to draw system-level assembly/wiring schematics like this:

SmartDraw - Auto wiring diagram

Although I am familiar with the particular pathology VE1BLL speaks of - AutoCAD experts who end up using it for everything, including memos - I don't share that mindset. It's sort of the software equivalent of using needlenose pliers as a hammer...

Anyway, just on appearance alone the aforementioned SmartDraw still looks like the best contender for "Visio alternative".

 

[LiteYear]

I've had similar needs and similar reservations about Visio. We found CorelDraw satisfied many of our wishes. Sane vector editing, good import/export, great for annotated block diagrams. A big drawback and a potential killer, is the lack of libraries. We managed because we had fairly generic shapes we could re-use, but if you needed standard electronics symbols you might be stuck.

In the end however, I couldn't convince the powers to be to buy any licenses. It was actually easier to license Visio and so we reluctantly moved that. I must say, after a bit of pain adopting the Visio way, it's a very capable package. Drawing connections can be a bit surprising, but once you get it, it's quite usable.

Will be interested to hear how you go with SmartDraw.

 

[Paulusgnome]

If your pockets are sufficiently deep, and your projects sufficiently complex, Eplan P8 is a good choice.
We build automatic factory machinery here that bristles with servos, VFDs, hydraulics and pneumatics, and all of our electrical schematics are done in Eplan. It took me a while to get up to speed with it, having come from and Autocad site, but the effort was well worth it. Our Eplan drawing sets are often praised by our customers for their completeness and ease of navigating around them.
Eplan is not, however, cheap. But then, this is true for many/most large cad systems - the manufacturers always think that their product is gold-plated.

 

[MagicSmoker]

Ok, so I downloaded the trial versions of both Edraw Max and SmartDraw. Both of these programs are basically centered around connecting vector graphic symbols together with "snappable" lines (that is, lines that stay connected even if you move the symbols they are joined to around). Both programs will allow you to import a raster graphic (for example, an image of an IO connector extracted from its datasheet) but won't let you connect "wires" to points inside the raster graphic; that is to say, lines stop at the outside of the image. This is not an issue with a more straightforward drawing program like Open Office Draw (a pink star to LiteYear for suggesting CorelDraw, as that prompted me to look at Open Office Draw, a part of Open Office I had heretofore never opened).

SmartDraw is fairly easy to use right out of the box and has an extensive selection of schematic symbols, though there is some indiscriminate mixing of types in its various libraries. For example, one of the default electric libraries loaded for drawing the aforementioned "auto wiring diagram" mixes up symbols for ladder logic, both both architectural and utility/industrial electrical, and electronics. One downside is that it is not immediately obvious how to create a new symbol; I'm sure there is a way to do this, it's just not "immediately obvious", is all I am saying. Finally, the free trial period is only 7 days, which is not really enough time for me to evaluate it compared to the other options, and the "not on sale" cost is $400.

Edraw Max includes a less comprehensive set of electrical/electronic symbols, but appears equally intuitive to use and is half the cost (actually - it will be 1/4th the cost after Sep. 6). It is also more obvious/intuitive how to create your own "connectable" symbols, so that's a definite plus. The free trial is the more usual 30 days and the price is low enough - $100 - that I feel its worth taking a flyer on if I get too frustrated with trying to draw things by hand in Open Office Draw.

Open Office Draw does not include any symbols, but it will happily allow you to import a screen-captured image of a connector from its datasheet and then manually draw lines all the way to the pins inside the image. Unfortunately, if you want to draw a resistor or a switch you have to do that manually as well, and while there is an ability to make "snappable" connections, or wires, it seems more of an afterthought rather than the central premise of the program, as with the above two. While it does come free with Open Office, if I have to spend an extra couple of hours drawing basic symbols that are included in Edraw Max, then the latter would be the smarter choice overall.

Thus, in truly irrational fashion, I am going to waste even more time by trying to do the same job with both programs and see which one I like best.

P.S. - I took a look at EPlan P8 and it looks nice, but perhaps a bit complicated for what I need to draw and given I only need to do such drawings once a year on average, probably not cost effective, either. Interesting suggestion, though.

 

[MintJulep]

I've used SmartDraw for schematics and found it to be OK, but nothing special.

The thing that annoyed me most was conflict between grid and auto snap points on symbols resulting in not orthogonal lines.

 

[IRstuff]

Visio is the other way, it has its own mind when it comes to snapping. I often have to turn off the snap altogether.

TTFN
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[MacGyverS2000]

And for whatever reason, Visio seems to lose its grid alignment when you start moving groups of items around (or, heaven forbid, save/exit/re-open). Nothing like one group of boxes being a few pixels off in one direction, another group being off a few pixels in another direction, etc.

Dan - Owner

http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

 

[MagicSmoker]

IRstuff/MacGyverS2000 - okay, I thought it was just me doing something wrong with Visio; nope, apparently the weird snap behavior is an "undocumented feature"...

So far EDdraw Max seems like a more-than-competent Visio alternative, particularly if, like me, you only have to draw a few installation diagram type schematics once a year or so.

 

[Erro11]

Altium and it integrates with Solidworks for 3D mechanical design. Very good but not cheap.