Do you guys defer steel connections? Should it be on the contact? 1

[reverbz]

Hey Guys,

So I was just wondering do you guys always defer steel beam connections? Even on more simple projects? Also, do you think this should have been specified on the proposal or is it standard practice?

Thank you!

 

[DrZoidberWoop]

I'm on the other end. I receive the contracts and do the steel connection designs for a fabricator. Delegated steel conx design seems to be mostly an east-coast USA phenomenon.

"Should it be on the contract?

Yes. Absolutely include the responsibilities and scope within the Original Contract Specifications. Usually, the delegated/deferred connection designs are explicitly stated to be in accordance with AISC 303 "Code of Standard Practice," Section 3.1.1.(3) (page 16.3-11 in the blue 15th manual) and the min fabrication inspection requirements per AISC 360 Section N.'

There are a lot of webinars dedicated to the subject of delegated structural steel connection design out there. They all go over the basic requirements for contracting and what to expect in the workflow.

 

[phamENG]

It is very common practice on the east coast of the US. I, however, despise it. It has it's uses - especially on very large projects or projects with unique connections. Fabricator input early can be critical for coming up with a really efficient design. But generally speaking, I find it's more work to specify all the loading and then review the calculations than it is to just do it myself. There's no real cost savings for the engineer, though shifting effort from design to CA can have benefits for scheduling if your firm is good at managing them. IF.

I have a clause in my proposals and service agreements that states that I reserve the right to delegate certain specialty aspects of a structure in accordance with standard industry practice. This include, but are not limited to, steel connections, open web steel joists, metal plate connected wood trusses, etc.

 

[XR250]

Most of my jobs are small enough that I do my own connection design. I agree with everything Pham stated..

 

[Eng16080]

You should definitely specify in your Agreement if you won't be designing the connections.

I like to design the connections, or at a minimum make sure a reasonable connection should work for the member sizes shown on the plans. For example, with really shallow I-beams (like W8s and W10s) it's not uncommon that a basic shear tab connection with (2) bolts won't work. I'd rather know that up-front so I can either choose a deeper beam section (if possible) or a different connection type, rather than wait for the steel fabricator to (hopefully) catch it.

I'd also add that I've seen a very wide range recently in terms of the quality of work done by steel detailers and fabricators. It makes me more cautious when it comes to handing off this very important part of the design.

 

[EngDM]

It's common where I practice to defer steel connections for any steel building.

 

[271828]

You should definitely specify in your Agreement if you won't be designing the connections.

I like to design the connections, or at a minimum make sure a reasonable connection should work for the member sizes shown on the plans. For example, with really shallow I-beams (like W8s and W10s) it's not uncommon that a basic shear tab connection with (2) bolts won't work. I'd rather know that up-front so I can either choose a deeper beam section (if possible) or a different connection type, rather than wait for the steel fabricator to (hopefully) catch it.

I'd also add that I've seen a very wide range recently in terms of the quality of work done by steel detailers and fabricators. It makes me more cautious when it comes to handing off this very important part of the design.

W8x10 and W10x12 are almost always very short, so little of the cost is from tonnage. The weight difference is small between those and W12x14, which almost never causes any connection difficulty.

I used to be an EOR and have worked as a connection designer in recent years. Knowing what I know now, I would almost never use a W8 and might even use W12x14 as the typical minimum.

W10x12 is often OK. In almost every case I've seen with a W10x12 causing problems, the EOR said to design for 1/2 the UDL. The solution is for the EOR to say design all W8 or W10 connections for 10 kips (or whatever) unless noted otherwise.

I guess it's obvious that a double-cope or deep single-cope causes a W10 to be problematic. Going to W12x14 as the min is a lot more forgiving for those.