Design Data Management and Solid Edge 1

[karmoh]

Hi All,

I have recently been evaluating DDM (Design Data Management) is anyone using this with Solid Edge?

I have found it quite intuitive. But it will be quite a chore getting away from the Directory/Folder/File system, which gave us total freedom, but as our company grows the Directory/Folder/File system is starting to cost us in time and money not to mention the stress of revision control, hence the attempt to move to a Data Control System. I would rather move to a control system now while our customer base is small and the projects are individualized, than a couple of years down the track.

DDM was the only system (I think) that was available for standalone users. Others including insight required a separate server with win 2003 sever etc.

I would be grateful if anyone is using DDM or attempted to use DMM with Solid Edge, has any helpful hints/tips or warnings.

 

[xedu]

karmoh,

There was a topic on the official UGS newsgroup/forum a while back.
I cannot remember who it....

I also would be grateful to have more info on this program.
But mostly you need a windows server edition running

 

[HDS]

There is also some details about it on the solid edge wiki

http://wiki.jasonnewell.net

Have you looked at the st2 version of insight. It still needs a sharepoint server but is supposed to be an upgrade over the old one.

 

[karmoh]

Thanks for the replies, but I'm unable to use insight or any other PLM/PDM software, due to not having a server and the correct server operating system.
I'm evaluating DDM, because it's available with multiply cad platform intergration and document control and can sit on a standalone cad station.
At this stage all I require is a simple part,assembly and drawing manager with the ability to attach associated documents. DDM fits the bill, but I was wondering if anyone had is using it or has had experience of it.

I would be grateful if anyone is using

http://www.designdatamanager.com/

or attempted to use DMM with Solid Edge, has any helpful hints/tips or warnings.

 

[swertel]

I have had people request my advice on using DDM. It's simple enough that I consulted them on the application without ever using it myself.

I don't know anyone specifically using it with Solid Edge.

If you are in the market for a desktop file manager, you may want to take a look at M-Files as well. I only know if it because Alibre opted to use it for their CAD program.

--Scott

http://wertel.eng.pro

 

[karmoh]

Thanks Scott,

I'll look in to M-Files

 

[karmoh]

Thanks again Scott,

M-Files looks real good, I'm going to give it a workout with Solid Edge to see if there is any issues as there is no direct intergration.

 

[HDS]

If you are on that constrained of a budget look at Aras. you have to pay for the solid edge integration but the PDM part is free.

 

[swertel]

One thing that I want to point out to M-Files, and I'm assuming any file management database, is your backup and restore solution.

Although M-Files mimics a mapped drive, it is still a database. Your back will consists of copying that one (or several) gigantic database files, not the individual "files" within the database. Restoring restores the entire database, so you actually lose all the change you made to every other file in order to restore the one you lost.

Veritas has made backup solutions for other PDM/PLM tools, so they may have one that also works for M-Files or DDM. I have not looked into it for years and at the time was looking at it for Sharepoint/Insight, not M-Files, DDM, or Teamcenter.

--Scott

http://wertel.eng.pro

 

[Art01]

When working on my drawing manager for Solid Edge I hit upon your request on this forum and thought maybe you want to check this. I'am from the Netherlands and am a mechanical engineer. I have developed a program to manage Solid Edge files because I could not find a simple solution for the same problem you have. The program is in English and I am still working on the English translation of the manual. I could sent you a demo version if you would appreciate that. My email is a.vanabbema@gmail.com.

 

[beachcomber]

Solid Applications in the UK have a drawing management application, called Drawing ManEdger.

see

http://www.solidapps.co.uk/DrawingManEdger.shtml

bc.
2.4GHz Core2 Quad, 4GB RAM,
Quadro FX4600.

 

[karmoh]

Hi beachcomber,

Waste of time talking to them, they just don't respond to queries or return calls. When I finally got a response from them it was flippant, and stated that they wasn’t interested in talking to me as I was in New Zealand……………
excuse me…..internet

Cheers

Mark

 

[beachcomber]

That's sad Karmoh, and pretty disgusting!
I can understand that site visits might be a problem in case you need help with configuring, but a simple polite reply would have been appreciated.

bc.
2.4GHz Core2 Quad, 4GB RAM,
Quadro FX4600.

 

[SSheldon]

Hello karmoh:

I am using DDM with Solid Edge. You can call me at 1-256-348-7550 or email me at ssheldon -at- maxvision.com.

I looked at the Siemens offerings for product data management (PDM), and we did a trial installation of their "free" PDM solution, "Insight". It is basically an interface for Solid Edge written to work with Microsoft Sharepoint Services. In my opinion, it was junk. It is completely non-intuitive to the usual engineering document management ways of maintaining revision control over documents. I was quoted an average of $20,000 USD for a basic Teamcenter installation.

Design Data Manager (DDM) was very easy to set up and is very intuitive to use. We currently have 3 seats, though I have been the sole user for just over a year now as there were issues with Alternate Configurations that DDM could not deal with that was a show-stopper for our other user. Thus I have not yet had the opportunity to use DDM in a collaborative environment, though I will soon as we have a new user who is going to be going straight into DDM working on a project with me.

DDM is a data management software that interfaces with several different CAD packages, including Pro/E, Solid Works, IronCAD, Solid Edge, and others. It will also manage non-CAD data.

For not being a Siemens product, it interfaces with Solid Edge fairly well, though there are some rough edges. It does recognize assembly/part/drawing relationships, obviously, so that if you pull down a drawing out of the database it pulls down the needed geometry into your working directory also. Likewise if you pull down an assembly, or a part with an insert-part-copy in it.

DDM now also handles Alternative Configurations of assemblies, which it did not until recently.

Though I have not tested it on the latest version of the software, DDM was a little touchy on how you "up-revisioned" parts. As you know, in Solid Edge, in the context of an assembly, you can either "edit" a component in an assembly or you can "open" the component and then work on it.

If you wish to bump the revision of a component in an assembly, you must OPEN the component and bump the revision, not edit.

Also, DDM does not set the read-only flag on parts it pulls down out of the DDM database, so if you pull down a read-only part, such as a released document, Solid Edge doesn't know that you can't modify it, and you can modify it all you want - it is not until you try and save it back to the database that DDM will stop you and tell you that you don't have write access. You can, of course, at this point still bump the revision if you wanted to.

As far as PDM goes, DDM functions just as you would expect an engineering document management system to function. It allows you to change the work state of documents (work, released, approved, etc.), and it allows you to change the revision level of the documents. You can limit this ability to certain classes of users. For example, "designers" may be able to roll the revision on documents, but only "releasers" might be able to release them. You have full control over these ACLs (Access Control Levels).

I do frequently run into bugs in the DDM interface, normally when searching it will come up and say, "null integer out of bounds" or something like that, which requires shutting down DDM and re-starting it, but that is not a terrible show-stopper.

One problem with DDM in the Solid Edge implementation is that it does not manage or clean up your working directory. Which means if you pull down a day's worth of work into your working directory you could have hundreds of components and drawings in your working directory. If you forget which ones you have saved into the DDM database and which ones you have not, you become afraid to "clean out" your working directory, and consequently you end up with thousands of files in your working dir. I haven't found a good way to deal with this except to say that every time you come to a good stopping point during the day you should save into DDM, rather than just doing a local save.

One benefit of the working directory is that it can be a local directory on your computer, so you can pull down an assembly from your network DDM server, then disconnect your computer from the network (say, go home), and work remotely, and then when you get back to work plug into the network and save into DDM.

At $1500/seat, with about $500 a year maintenance, I have found it to be a bargain for managing CAD data, and far superior to Siemens' offerings.

Also the folks at Design Data Manager are very responsive and helpful with problems.

Steve Sheldon
MaxVision

Note: I am not affiliated with Design Data Manager except as a customer.

 

[karmoh]

Hi Steve,

Thanks for the indepth reply. I gave DDM a fair go earlier this year. DDM was great for managing documents and project data, but the integration with Solid Edge is troublesome and very clumsy.

Observations,
The saving and retrieving of parts and assemblies is very slow and the closing and opening of part windows when saving is a real pain. Add the current method of changing the display settings every time you save. DDM is not a winner.
Creating simple assemblies takes up to 100% longer.
I realize that there is to be some difference, but take adding a clinch nut to a large enclosure, by loading the clinch nut it disappears in to the center of the model, I then have to find the nut and activate the mating procedure. Normally I just go to my standard parts library, then zoom in to where I want to place the clinch nut and drag and drop the clinch nut, the mating procedure starts automatically and with 3 clicks of the mouse I’m done.

For the price and therefore functionality it is a great product for data management and it possibly works perfectly with other cad packages, but as it stands with solid edge it’s not a winning combination for me. I require the functionality that DDM brings but the integration with solid edge is at best a clumsy add-on. Sorry if that’s blunt.

I also recently found out that DDM doesn’t support Solid Edge ST.

So for the moment DDM has been shelved until the integrations is smoother and the interface interacts similar to how Solid Edge works.

Great product with real potential, but DDM need to get the solid edge interface sorted and they're on to a winner.

Thanks for the time and effort to respond, but as of yet I have not found anything that compares with an Excel Spreadsheet, revision Manager and a little intuition.

 

[SSheldon]

>The saving and retrieving of parts and assemblies is
>very slow and the closing and opening of part windows
>when saving is a real pain.

I agree with you that DDM is slow when saving and opening parts.

Fortunately, the way I work is I pull something down, work locally with local saves and then push it back to the database at the end of the day. This is not what the DDM folks recommend (they recommend all saving/opening be done through the DDM interface) but DDM is too slow for this.

>Add the current method of changing the display settings
>every time you save. DDM is not a winner.

I also find it annoying that it changes the view shading setting to "no edges" every time it saves, but find it is not that big a deal to click the icon to turn on the edges again after saving.

>Creating simple assemblies takes up to 100% longer.
>I realize that there is to be some difference, but
>take adding a clinch nut to a large enclosure, by loading
>the clinch nut it disappears in to the center of the
>model, I then have to find the nut and activate the
>mating procedure. Normally I just go to my standard parts
>library, then zoom in to where I want to place the clinch
>nut and drag and drop the clinch nut, the mating
>procedure starts automatically and with 3 clicks of the
>mouse I'm done.

I agree with you on this point also. What I have found it easier to do is this: Insert the component using the DDM interface. Then drag in another of the same component right off of the Assembly Pathfinder. When you do this, the auto mating procedure kicks off as normal. Then delete the first component you brought in.

It is an annoying thing to do, but I have found it an acceptable work-around.

I agree with you that DDM does not seamlessly integrate with Solid Edge, and needs improvement. But in my view, CAD simply MUST be used within a managed environment. If you want revision control, access control, and speedy where-used capabilities, there is simply no alternative. Revision Manager does not manage revisions at all. Rather, it simply gives you a (slow) means to do a mass-replace of one component for another in all assemblies on your file system.

So while I also want a tighter integration with Solid Edge, for me the benefits of a PDM tool far outweigh the problems.

What I /really/ wish is that Siemens would take notice and offer a native PDM solution in the same price range as DDM.