Defining a "Professional" 12

[ThePunisher]

We engineers, including doctors, accountants, teachers, and like, are considered professionals by virtue of our a) educational attainment which requires a body of knowledge obtained from years of study, b) have the work scope of analyzing and making reasoned judgment based on the application of these body of knowledge, c) follow professional ethics in the execution of our work, c) work with dignity, specialized knowledge not easily understood by other profession and (d) technically autonomous.

I have encountered lately some Trades folks, specifically electrical site foremen who are experienced and licensed electricians who are trying to get public clamour that they too should be considered as "professionals" and made themselves with the justification there are also titles like "professional" drivers whose licenses are "regulated". I have exhausted explaining the "professional" definition but it seems they use the term "professional drivers" as reference.

I am not that stupid to fall for it but I was wondering if someone in this forum have a better way of explaining it.

I am not supposed to take this seriously until these group of folks are already going to the level of clamoring such call to the professional regulating body in our country, as we are insisting that they should be regulated by the agency handling "trades" instead.

 

[woodman88]

The attached link is from the USA Bureau of Labor Statistics website

http://www.bls.gov/ocsm/commoga.htm

Garth Dreger PE - AZ Phoenix area
As EOR's we should take the responsibility to design our structures to support the components we allow in our design per that industry standards.

 

[monkeydog]

urgross,

Looks like you are correct, in your self assessment that you are wrong.
Your premiss on the oldest profession does not match up with the US Dept of Labor. They would be categorized as:
K469 SERVICE OCCUPATIONS, N.E.C.
or
C274 SALES WORKERS, OTHER COMMODITIES

What is interesting to me but in hindsight makes sense, is that Legislators and Managers are not considered as Professionals.

 

[ThePunisher]

Keep it up folks and I appreciate all your reactions. I am printing this thread periodically and try to read them over and over again. A lot of mixed and opposing reactions are making my understanding bloated and hope I can cope up and make one conclusion for myself. Its goo help get more minds together on my query.

 

[CheckerHater]

Not impressed:

C'mon, guys, it's Friday!


"For every expert there is an equal and opposite expert"
Arthur C. Clarke Profiles of the future

 

[glass99]

CheckerHater: Awesome. Also, The Professional with Gary Oldman and Natalie Portman - one of the best movies from the late 90's.

 

[CheckerHater]

Wasn't it Jean Reno?

"For every expert there is an equal and opposite expert"
Arthur C. Clarke Profiles of the future

 

[MacGyverS2000]

Correct.

Dan - Owner

http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

 

[urgross]

What? Me wrong? Unpossible!

 

[CELinOttawa]

But you did fail English, Ralph.

 

[lacajun]

I maintain that the reason we can't even do *that* is because we, as engineers (whatever that means), have historically and progressively cheapened our own self-worth to the point that we are prepared to let anyone do what we do (whatever that is), without summoning the collective courage or any semblance of guts to stand up for ourselves by agreeing on the definition, defending the right to title, and standing up for ourselves.

I agree with SNORGY. Engineers do not stand up for the profession. The result, the profession is diluted.

I've had skilled workers claim they could do better work as an engineer than me. I encouraged them to get engineering degrees.

They learned they could do some skilled activities quite good because they had learned on the job. They learned they could not cut engineering.

We need to understand the educational requirements of beginning the process of becoming a degreed engineer. Then perhaps we will politely help others understand what a profession is.

Pamela K. Quillin, P.E.
Quillin Engineering, LLC

 

[SNORGY]

Truly great minds think alike. However, the greater minds are more gracious and eloquent.

 

[lacajun]

SNORGY, your answers were truly very eloquent and gracious.

Pamela K. Quillin, P.E.
Quillin Engineering, LLC

 

[MJB315]

For me, I wouldn't let pride get in the way on this one.

You may have developed an advanced skill set, cultivated those skills over several projects for several paying Clients, and see yourself as a professional. That's a great place to be. I understand not wanting that diminished by interlopers trying to seem to be something, that you are.

But it's just a title. You could sharpie "professional" on a watermelon, but it wouldn't change the fundamentals of the situation -- which would become obvious after scrutiny. Everyone talks a good-game for the first minute-- the pro's can go on for hours.

I have two degress in structural engineering and am licensed to practice in two states. But I know tradespeople who, in my opinion, have a more advanced skill set that they have cultivated over several different projects for several paying Clients...than I. They're professionals, in my book. They can call themselves what they please.

"We shape our buildings, thereafter they shape us." -WSC

 

[lacajun]

Pride doesn't get in my way. The law sums it up, in my mind, and the state boards. Engineering is regulated and the trades are regulated, too, if I am correct. Many occupations are regulated now because people practicing those occupations were not competent, to some minimal standard, causing harm to others. Laws are passed all the time to protect us from each other. *cough* Licensure sets a minimal standard for all regulated occupations. What they do after that licensure is up to them.

Since engineering is regulated, we need engineers looking at those laws and helping the rest of us know of their workings through government and how they impact our profession so we can call our legislators to give our input. But that is another topic.

When I renew my license in Louisiana, it makes me think a lot about engineering, being a PE, etc. It is more than just a title. It has meaning, action, and consequences. It is a privilege that could be removed from me, if I break the law or code of conduct egregiously enough.

I am going to be blunt. I know PEs that are not as intelligent as others. But they had the foresight, perseverance, and tenacity to get the degree, take the FE, get 4 years of experience, and take the PE until they passed. They consistently met some minimal standard of knowledge, education, experience, etc. set by a lot of organizations and regulating agencies along the way. They, in my opinion, should not be discriminated against, belittled, demeaned, undermined, etc. for the decisions they made. I've not met one PE that demeans or belittles those who decide otherwise. In fact, the ones I know want all engineers to be registered and actively participating in the profession to elevate it and thereby engineers. If engineers do not take care of their profession, it will become something they may not want because regulation is not going away.

People make their own decisions. Good decisions should not be criticized nor should the people making them.

Pamela K. Quillin, P.E.
Quillin Engineering, LLC

 

[Ron]

Well said, Pam!!

 

[lacajun]

Thank you, Ron!

Pamela K. Quillin, P.E.
Quillin Engineering, LLC

 

[KENAT]

I once questioned the idea of being "Professional". Not the OP but

thread732-196326

Quote: PhilBW
"There are times when your company really needs you to put in extra time. Professionalism is working the extra time even if it doesn't fit your personal plans. There are other times the company wants you to work extra hours, but don't really need you to work extra hours. You can respectfully decline, explaining your reasoning, and still be acting in a professional manner. If they still demand your time, professionalism means putting in the time. If it gets to be too much, there are other jobs."

If being professional means letting your employer dictate what you do or don’t do outside of agreed work hours/compensation then I’m not sure I’m that fussed about being professional.

I’ve worked extra hours (both with & without extra pay), & I’ll continue to do so when it’s required and it doesn’t negatively affect my family to any significant degree.

Many (most?) cases where the company needs you to work extra hours it’s because of a lack of planning on their part, be it accepting too much work, setting unrealistic deadlines, laying off staff but expecting same throughput, disgruntled employees quitting, poor staff working with inadequate supervision etc.

Lack of preparation & planning on their part does not necessarily constitute an emergency on mine.

Given the amount of stars you got PhilBW I suspect most will disagree with me but there it is.

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