Dealing with coworkers with engineering title but no degree! 4

[LONDONDERRY]

Some days I just want to scream. I so sick companies giving engineer titles to people that don't even have a engineering degree or there last job was 5 years at Wal-Mart and you have to deal with their incompetence of not knowing the basis of their job
For example:
As a mechanical engineer, I have to deal with a small army of people that are so-called "configuration engineer" but none of them have any sort of engineering back ground and this is their first gig in high tech. Some of these so called "engineers" last jobs where school bus driver, grocery store clerk, store manager. They all have no concept of what an engineering BOM or assembly drawing is and they make a disaster of the engineering documentation. I asked one of them what experience they have with ANSI ASME and their response was.. "what's that?" I MEAN COME ON!!
It got so bad, that I have to tell my manager, that unless CE follow my lead on proper documentation practices I'll given them nothing.

I've worked with some old timers ( 1-2 in my life) they didn't have the engineering title, but came from machine shops, but they really knew their stuff

 

[KENAT]

Then again lack of degree does not imply un-trainable - unless there are a lot of pets out there with degrees.

Posting guidelines faq731-376

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(probably not aimed specifically at you)
What is Engineering anyway: faq1088-1484​

 

[LONDONDERRY]

Wow seems like this post might have gotten a bit out of hand. I'm not slamming anyone without a degree I've worked with many non-degreed people that where very good and I've worked with some Ph'D engineers that never seen a machine shop.
My original post was dealing with people that have positions that they are in over there head. Just because I have a degree in one area doesn't qualify me to preform medical surgery.

Typical workflow in most companies is something is designed, the released through an ECO then purchased or manufactured, then delivered to customer.
At my company, I've been at for the past 6 months, things breakdown after the design phase and we can't ship products. I'll design something,write an ECO pass it to the config. engineers (CE) and they don't understand what to do, even after countless meetings and hand holding/ training. So myself and the config manager (CM), who is also new, have take on the CE job rolls because if not it never gets released. Afterwards we pass that to chain supply for ordering and then we get phone calls from the vendor, because chain supply just sends out assembly drawings and no BOM's or detail drawing but expect the vendors to quote on fabing parts. Again after countless meetings with chain supply on what to do myself and CM have to take on their rolls. In the meantime we have program manager's wanting to know what the delays are, which we have to answer for. For example I designed a product back in Sept 2013 and it sat for months while I thought it was release and even today supply chain hasn't placed order because they're lost on what to do and the program manager is fuming. Its so bad the CM wants to let the CE and supply chain people let go but can because he's new and his boss will not allow it.

So I apologize for my rant, I'm not personally attacking none degreed people.

 

[cranky108]

Every company has some level of dis-orgization.

Our purchasing people maybe good at purchasing wire, but they struggle with custom equipment and services. Youd think they know the difference between a civil work company, and an electrical work company, but they struggle.

 

[KENAT]

LONDONDERRY - we've had similar issues with outsourcing 'assemblies'.

One approach we've used is to create a single zip file or similar for each assembly which has all the required documentation in it.

Trouble is ensuring this gets kept up to date.

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(probably not aimed specifically at you)
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[TheTick]

I've noticed the non-degreed cohort can be pretty thin-skinned on this issue. Hard knocks diploma not printed on cowhide.

 

[beej67]

I've brought this up before, but one of the most talented engineers I've worked with was a degree-less ex air traffic controller.

Hydrology, Drainage Analysis, Flood Studies, and Complex Stormwater Litigation for Atlanta and the South East -

http://www.campbellcivil.com

 

[EngineeringEric]

How has nobody brought up the term Domestic Engineer yet? I agree that the term Engineer is being used everywhere and that may make people feel less special but it is my understanding that this has been the case for hundreds of years. I recall some letters from a US Engineer in the 1800's who voiced feeling concerned that the 'Professionals' of Lawyers viewed him as a blue collar contractor since he worked with them and he felt he should be viewed as a higher member of society. In the end, the individual matters more than a title.

And I do not follow ASME Document standards, cannot state if i know/follow them. I draft what makes my intent the clearest and move on with myself. I like to spend my time tormenting interns and making contractors over build everything!

 

[berkshire]

EngineeringEric (Structural)
You bring up the term domestic engineer, I believe the term was shelved when the heating and domestic engineers union merged with the Draughtsman's and allied technicians union, before they too were absorbed by Unite .
God knows what they are called now.
B.E.

You are judged not by what you know, but by what you can do.

 

[cvg]

I believe the term Domestic Engineer is still in use, however I would recommend caution using it

http://www.ask.com/question/what-is-a-domestic-engineer

 

[berkshire]

CVG,
Well that is a little different from my understanding of the title. My understanding was, that a domestic engineer was a person who worked on the fringe of the plumbing and pipe fitting community, fixing hot air furnaces, boilers, and water heaters. Not to be confused with plumbers who were eager to grab the same title.
B.E.

You are judged not by what you know, but by what you can do.

 

[MacGyverS2000]

cvg's definition is the only one I was aware of...

Dan - Owner

http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

 

[EngineeringEric]

I actually was referring to a predominate stay at home parent... but the other ones are new options to me.

 

[Pmatherne]

I was going to start a field called Procrastination Engineering, but I heard it was a waste of time

As far as I know in the US pretty much anyone can call themselves an engineer. There is no law against it. The only thing that might stop someone is to do certain things they need to be a licensed engineer. Hence the PE behind some peoples name
Ironically because I came from the IT field I can call myself an engineer because of certifications I got through companies like Microsoft and HP. Also I have a degree in Network Engineering

One reason why companies call non-degreed people engineers is billing. If you look at the rates they go up as the title gets more and more professional. For instance Bill might be able to do the work of a senior design engineer but does not have a degree. Do you think a company would not want to have him billed out at the higher rate

Future PE Engineer
Pet project I am working on to help other engineers, not much yet hoping to get it grow as I learn more

http://www.peexamquestions.com

 

[cvg]

at least according to local laws, I believe it is illegal to call yourself an engineer if you aren't one. I believe calling yourself an engineer or advertising that fact is the same as implying that you are qualified to be one.

32-145. Violations; classification
Any person who commits any of the following acts is guilty of a class 2 misdemeanor:
1. Practices, offers to practice or by any implication holds himself out as qualified to practice any board regulated profession or occupation if the person is not registered or certified as provided by this chapter.
2. Advertises or displays any card, sign or other device that may indicate to the public that the person is certified or registered or is qualified to practice any board regulated profession or occupation if the person is not certified or registered as provided by this chapter.

 

[drawoh]

cvg,

Your example does not explicitly exclude the title "engineer". If someone claims to be "licensed to practice engineering" or they adopt the title "professional engineer", you have them. I see the phrases "qualified to practice" and "certified or registered". This sort of language ought to stand up in court, although I am not a lawyer. I am sure we all know what a sanitation engineer is.

There is not much you can do about train engineers, stationary engineers, domestic engineers and engineering managers. That horse left barn a very long time ago.

--
JHG

 

[moltenmetal]

Don't forget the "stationery engineers"- the ones whose only product is paper...

 

[AELLC]

"at least according to local laws, I believe it is illegal to call yourself an engineer if you aren't one. I believe calling yourself an engineer or advertising that fact is the same as implying that you are qualified to be one. "



Someone who calls himself a building engineer (he is the building maintenance person) is not in violation.

Someone claiming to be a Structural Engineer and he is not (example-student or Civil Engineer) IS in violation.

 

[mtu1972]

I am a Civil Engineer who majored in the structural option. All but one of my elective courses at the BS level and 9 of 11 classes in my MS degree were structural engineering courses. The one BS elective as an advanced soils class that was relevant to foundation design.

I have always called myself a Structural Engineer but do not use SE behind my name because I am not registered as such.

In fact when I took the PE in Minn., I had to interview board members prior to being approved to take the PE exam. At that time I had to declare my discipline (Civil, Mechanical, Electrical, ???) and my specialty (structural, transportation, environmental, etc.) to the board. You were then reminded that you were not supposed to work outside of your field of expertise. The afternoon portion of the exam was such that you could choose to work in your specialized field.

I realize that many of the western states and Illinois have always had the SE specialized requirements, and now the SE exam is being nationalized.

When I worked in MN, our boss, a Civil PE, was able to get reciprocity in CA for our structural work on mining and mineral processing buildings associated with one of our projects there. Certain classification of buildings were exempt from the SE requirements.


gjc

 

[AELLC]

mtu, in your state, is there a Structural PE classification, or can CE's with declared structural intent (such as in NM) perform high-rise and seismic calculations with a Civil PE stamp?

 

[mtu1972]

No SE classification as of yet in WI, but with the new national test it may well be coming. I've never worked on anything greater than 90' tall industrial buildings here.

Hopefully a lot of us will be "grandfathered" in when it happens.

gjc