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contract and payment question

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SLTA

Structural
Aug 11, 2008
1,641
ok folks, Merry Christmas!

I have a client for whom I did an investigation and wrote a report on the structural status of a house. He and I talked extensively before meeting about the two levels of investigation I could do - one just telling him general problems and recommendations with no design or calcs or specifics, and a level up where I would design specific fixes for what I found. He insisted that the first report would be enough. At the house, he was also adamant that he and his builder buddy could handle the specifics - he just wanted suggestions from me.

Fast forward to his response to my report, where he's all mad that I didn't give him specific repair instructions and calcs. I reminded him of our conversations about what the report he was buying would get him, and that he signed the contract for the more general report, but he said the report is useless to him and now, he doesn't want to pay me what his signed contract agreed to. He calls it all a misunderstanding and miscommunication and has asked me to charge him "what I feel is fair".

I'm considering two sides - charging him half fee, because I don't like having a grumpy customer, or charging him full fee because we did talk about exactly how much detail would be in the report, and he did sign the contract.

How much would you charge him? Full or half? Keep in mind the overall fee is under $500, that I'm not likely to have him as a client again anyway (my projects tend to be one-shot deals), but that he has a builder friend who recommended me and could potentially pass me work, and that my company is relatively new.

*whew* Thanks!
 
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Slta
Is this a genuine mis-understanding, or is this guy stringing you on?
If you feel the miscomunication is genuine, give him a break.
If you feel that he is shining you on, charge him full price and say goodbye.
B.E.

The good engineer does not need to memorize every formula; he just needs to know where he can find them when he needs them. Old professor
 
If what he said is true he should have no problems with you completing a full report and entering into a contract based on a full report with calcs and spec. I would be more inclined to do the the full report for a little less than give a discount, than give a discount on the report he says is inadequate unless there is a miscommunication.

The builder is very unlikely to care either way.

"A safe structure will be the one whose weakest link is never overloaded by the greatest force to which the structure is subjected” Petroski 1992
 
slta...he's trying to work you. I've seen that ploy over and over through the years. He wants to come off to you as being "fair"...that he's willing to pay you something for your trouble 'cause he's a nice guy, but that the report is useless to him. BS!

Charge him full price. If your proposal was clear as to your scope of services, he signed it and you did the work...charge for it as contracted.

He will take your work to some other engineer and they will then use your suggestions for a quick, cheap design fix...and he'll probably try to stiff them too.

If you fold, that will probably hurt your work in the future more than standing firm. Your contractor referral might refer more work to you, but will tell his referral to beat you down on price.

You are already charging what should be a minimum charge for your services ($500).

This guy is either a developer or he flips houses.
 
Ron said it, he's playing you. If I was you I would just assume that he does this with every professional reslationship and regularly gets significant discounts. I had a couple of folks try that nonsense when I was first starting and I stood my ground, they paid slow but they paid. I'd charge him the full amount and put a 14 day due date on the invoice if the contract allows.

David
 
If your proposal was clear as to your scope of services, he signed it and you did the work...charge for it as contracted.

Absolutely correct. On the other hand...

If you DID NOT put it explicitly in writing what you would deliver, AND his obligations to pay for services rendered, then shame on you. $500 is chump change. Charge what you would feel comfortable with (if anything), snip this off and walk away gracefully. And never work with this guy again. Consider this as a cheap learning experience in your new venture. Won't be the last time.

Hint: I've learned over the years to add $500 to my contract fees just for the work of writing a good proposal that protects both me and my clients. It's a very effective filter for those folks like your client.

TygerDawg
Blue Technik LLC
Virtuoso Robotics Engineering
 
oh, and slta...Merry Christmas to you as well! Now get back to those Legos.
 
cheers, folks! cheers, Ron, will do :D
 
I sent the bill today for the entire amount. We'll see if he actually pays.
 
slta....give him 30 days, then send a letter that says you are going to pursue payment through small claims court....then do it.
 
And the fun continues. Got an email back today that he's "shocked and saddened by this turn of events", ie me insisting he pay for what he hired me to do. According to him, he's called several engineers who provide the more detailed report for much less than I charge (umm... no, there aren't, and I know most of the folks in town) and that he's showed my report to an architect, with no comments of "this is what she told me I'd get in the first place". So now the guy is slandering my company and my name to other professionals, all because he refused to pay me what he chose to sign the contract for, and for the price he agreed to!

This is my first experience with this, and honestly, I've worked so hard to get where I am and it has me quite stressed that this guy is going around smearing the hard work I do.

* deep breaths * What to do?
 
Hit fast, hit hard.

Respond that you were far more "shocked and saddened" by his very obvious ploy of reneging on the contract; that you will pursue through Small Claims court if necessary; that you have sought seek legal advice regarding his slandering your name.
 
Cut your losses, you can't win from such clients. Tell him in this new year you have new rates. Give him option of paying 200% of the agreed amount because this is the new rate. Remind him the billing amount is tied to the report date. Since the report is dated January of the new year, the new billing policy has gone into effect. Or option 2, he may without any obligation walk away.

 
Agree, cut your losses. It's a cheap learning experience for you.

Be careful about sending a letter threatening legal action thru a small claims court. If you don't follow thru, he can turn around and sue you for violation of his rights under the federal debt collection practices and you might end up owing him $1,000 per violation plus attorney's fees.
 
The only thing I dislike more than like dealing with crazy people, is trying to get money out of crazy people who are angry. If they start heading off the deep end, I cut bait as fast as possible. If this guy is running around with your report to other people, then he's certifiable in my book. Who does that to any professional?

Return his fee, and tell him he's better off with someone else. The second he says to another engineer that you returned his fee, that other engineer is going to think twice about getting involved. I know I would. I've turned away more than one person who's said "yeah I had an engineer but it didn't work out." (And out of professional courtesy, I always, always, always call the engineer I'm replacing.)

 
The signed contract says that mediation is to be pursued first. I'm thinking of giving him 7 days to pay in full or calling mediation, and if he refuses mediation, to go to small claims court.

The problem is that if it gets around that the local girl engineer is a pushover, then I'm going to have to deal with this crap all the time.

And from now on, I'll get a check in hand before I start if I've never worked for them before.

* grrrr *
 
RacingAZ said:
Be careful about sending a letter threatening legal action thru a small claims court. If you don't follow thru, he can turn around and sue you for violation of his rights under the federal debt collection practices and you might end up owing him $1,000 per violation plus attorney's fees.
I don't see how such is possible. If she threatens to sue in small claims court, but later decides it's not worth the time, I fail to see how he can turn around and say "You threatened me but didn't actually follow through, you owe me money for mental anguish."

She's an individual/business trying to agreed upon costs, not a collection agency.

Dan - Owner
Footwell%20Animation%20Tiny.gif
 
slta...pursue it as you've considered. I agree that since you are in a relatively small market, you have to make it known that you are capable and fair, but you won't be pushed around.

Go for it and good luck.

As for your contract terms...you might want to take a look at them with regard to mediation as a first resort.

In general, if you sue someone in civil court, a judge is likely to order mediation anyway. The threat of litigation packs a bigger punch than the threat of mediation.

If mediation is your first resort, you might be waiting a while to get mediation scheduled or forced. If you want it as a first resort, then put a time-certain limit on when it will occur. For instance, you might put a clause that requires payment in 30 days. If not paid in 30 days, the client must state in writing his objection to the charges in 5 days or waive his right to mediation. If the client makes written objection, then mediation shall occur within 30 days of the due date of the bill...this way it doesn't drag on.

Check with your lawyer, of course.
 
Having dealt with this type before, if you do take it to small claims court. Insist that he pays the money into court.
I had a customer string me on, then squabble in this manner.
When the judge said to the customer " he did the work, pay the man" the guy paid me with a bad check then left the country.
B.E.

The good engineer does not need to memorize every formula; he just needs to know where he can find them when he needs them. Old professor
 
As I said before: "$500 is chump change." Consider how much your own time is actually worth , then make the decision to pursue that paltry $500. Or not. I value my time in the hundreds of dollars per hour, so that helps me clarify a lot of decisions about what to do, and what not to do.

Regarding reputation, YOU actually have the advantage here. All you have to do is casually mention that you choose not to work with that person. Ever again. When the other Folks-Who-May-Get-Screwed-By-That-Guy ask "why?", simply respond that there was a payment dispute and you didn't get paid. That will be the end of that guy's business venture. He'll have to relocate to Mars to get away from his reputation as a non-paying deadbeat.

Proof: I did a substantial amount of robot programming for some hack, who refused to pay his final bill. Left me short about $1500. Later, he stopped coming to me and went to the major robot companies directly. They called me to do work for THEM, which they were doing for HIM, because those robot salesmen believed his cockamamie story about selling dozens of robots. I told them all the story, without slander or libel, and that I refused to do work directly for him since he didn't pay his bill. The guy was blackballed in the industry immediately, his business scheme imploded, and he is now probably flipping burgers.

TygerDawg
Blue Technik LLC
Virtuoso Robotics Engineering
 
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