Clarification on FRP and similar materials 2

[UpstateNY]

I'm hoping to obtain a basic (or in depth)explanation/comparison/contrast of the following terms which are all pretty abundant out there:

1 fiber reinforced plastic
2 fiberglass reinforced plastic
3 fiberglass
4 composite
5 composite frp
6 glass reinforced plastic

Please feel free to add to the list if I'm missing something relevant - thanks in advance

 

[MikeHalloran]

Google didn't help?

What problem are you trying to solve?



Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[rstupplebeen]

I typically only find these confusing if acronyms are used such as GRP which could be glass or graphite reinforced plastic.

Rob Stupplebeen

 

[berkshire]

The problem you are going to have is one that grips the whole composite plastic industry. Only the writer really knows what he/she is describing, and sometimes you have to ask for a clarification as to what they are describing.

An example Grp Glass reinforced plastic.

This can be used to describe an injection molded plastic with glass or glass fibers in it, a spray molded thermoset resin with glass fibers chopped into it, fiberglass fabric draped into a mold and saturated with a room temperature thermoset resin. Or a prepreg resin soaked fiberglass cloth cured in an oven. I did not mention SMC which is also a Grp.
B.E.

 

[UpstateNY]

Thank you for your responses. I am struggling to clarify exactly what I want – but in general I’d like to have a better understanding of the terminology used when describing the MOC of plastic tanks. I realize I'm getting into semantics and the minutia of definitions but those are the issues I'm struggling with. The actual formation and processes used to make the materials are interesting but not as important as a basic understanding of the terms. Thanks again.

1 Does FRP indicate fiber reinforced plastic, fiberglass reinforced plastic, or is it interchangeable?
1.1 Is it correct to assume that the term fiber in fiber reinforced plastic could be glass fiber or carbon fiber, and probably others that I’m not mentioning here?
2 A fiberglass reinforced plastic is also a GRP? Are there GRPs that are not fiberglass reinforced plastics?
3 Are the terms glass fiber and fiberglass identical? When I think of glass fiber I imagine tiny individual strands of stringlike glass. When I think of the term fiberglass I picture the blade of a hockey stick from my youth.
3.1 Is there a material that is actually just fiberglass? – or when someone says the term fiberglass are they referring to plastic that is reinforced with glass fibers? Is a fiberglass hockey stick actually fiberglass reinforced plastic or is it just fiberglass?
4 As best I can tell the term composite refers to a material that is composed of two or more distinguishable/different materials - So is saying “composite frp” redundant? If something is FRP it is inherently composite? It something is GRP is it inherently composite?
4.1 I know there are composite materials that are not based around plastic – what other major materials would the term “composite” refer to that might throw me for a loop?

 

[MikeHalloran]

It is correct to assume nothing.

There are plastics reinforced with cotton fiber.

Fiberglass may refer to insulation batting, or to a product made with glass fiber reinforcement in a plastic matrix.

In civil engineering, composite refers to concrete and steel reinforcing each other.

The original, natural composite, is wood.



Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[PanelGuy]

After twenty plus years of the industry and dealing with non-technical Sales people I will not refer to anything as FRP.

In reference to boats, tanks, tubs, cars...It almost always means some kind of fiberglass, woven or random, in a polyester matrix. In electronics it is almost always fine woven glass but the matrix changes.

In my world it means the other person most likely does not have a clue what they are dealing with but somone said fiberglass so that means FRP...Fiberglass Reinforced Plastic (er, polymer or polyester...well poly somethin). Half my clients would actually say they really meant "anything that won't corrode like metal".

My two cents...always clarify, and unless you get charged by the word...use them...IMHO...LOL TTYL TC

 

[RPstress]

PanelGuy and MikeHalloran have good advice. All acronyms used without a definition are fundamentally ambiguous and potentially misleading.

Professionally produced documents formally define all acronyms used, either in a separate glossary or just using the convention of spelling the acronym out fully the first time it is used. (Well, they should...)

The term fiberglass is reasonably unambiguous, but you need to clarify it further where fiber form and exact material are relevant and you should be explicit when referring to fibreglass reinforced plastic.

Your specific queries (it sounds like you could do with a basic reference such as "Concise Encyclopedia of Composite Materials", A. Kelly):
"1 Does FRP indicate fiber reinforced plastic, fiberglass reinforced plastic, or is it interchangeable?"
-Ambiguous. Usually means any fiber.

"2 A fiberglass reinforced plastic is also a GRP? Are there GRPs that are not fiberglass reinforced plastics?"
-Ambiguous. The G is almost always glass, but can mean graphite, especially in the US. The RP is invariably reinforced plastic in my experience (but not in my Eng-Tips handle as it happens!), but you never know.

"3 Are the terms glass fiber and fiberglass identical? When I think of glass fiber I imagine tiny individual strands of stringlike glass."
-Usually. I believe the term Fiberglas (capital F one s) is a trade mark for an E-glass fibre reinforced thermoset plastic, but I don't know exactly what in detail. Individual glass fibers used in structures can be anywhere between 0.75 and 25.4 micrometers, though less than 9 micrometers is rare. Where there are bundles of glass fibers they are only superficially stringlike, as typically they will usually have no or very little twist. Most glass fibre material is E-glass, but there are several others; if it's relevant one should be specific.

"3.1 Is there a material that is actually just fiberglass? – or when someone says the term fiberglass are they referring to plastic that is reinforced with glass fibers?"
-You can get glass fibers with no matrix present. Practically, a thing like a hockey stick made of 'GRP' is bound to be thermoset polymer matrix reinforced with woven glass cloth, though chopped strand mat (CSM) and unidirectional (UD) plies might also be in there.

"4 As best I can tell the term composite refers to a material that is composed of two or more distinguishable/different materials - So is saying "composite frp" redundant?"
-Any reinforced plastic falls into the class of materials referred to as composite, so yes.

"4.1 I know there are composite materials that are not based around plastic – what other major materials would the term "composite" refer to that might throw me for a loop?"
-Traditionally there are three matrix types for artifical composites, all more or less isotropic: polymer (both thermoset and thermoplastic), metallic (including intermetallic) and 'ceramic'. Ceramic means quite a few stiff and brittle materials, including a non-fibrous form of carbon. Strictly, you can also get elastomers with fiber reinforcement. Although concrete 'ought' to be regarded as a ceramic matrix material it is usually handled separately. Wood and other natural composites are also usually handled separately.

 

[UpstateNY]

Thank you all very much for helping me get this figured out and working through some of the minutiae.