Cell Phone Spark 1

[chicopee]

Is there enough spark energy generated in cell phones to ignite air ladden w/ gasoline fume while cars are being refueled? Just read an article relating several incidents on this topic. I can not seem to believe it.

 

[jraef]

Do a google search on "myth busters cell phone ignition". They did a show on it and essentially busted it as a myth.

Eng-Tips: Help for your job, not for your homework Read faq731-376

 

[VisiGoth]

Who promotes this stuff? How could there be several articles written on this unless someone is lying? Ignorance is one thing. I can understand how an uneducated public would fear the unkown. But engineers should have access to facts. Is there a way of putting together myth buster like information for the general public?

 

[stookeyfpe]

The Petroleum Equipment Institute has been monitoring this urban legend for years. See the following web link:

http://www.pei.org/static/index.htm

 

[dpc]

Bogus. Another resource:

http://www.snopes.com/autos/hazards/gasvapor.asp

However.....

There have been cases of **people** creating enough spark to ignite gasoline vapors when they grab the nozzle to remove it from the car. This is discussed in the Petroleum Equipment Institute link cited by stookeyfpe above.

 

[itsmoked]

I believe that women are most likely to be burned up while fueling their cars because they are the most likely to re-enter the vehicle then re-exit it again without having to touch the door handle (because the door is already open)and hence carrying an electric charge back to the in-use nozzle. Also they might be more likely to wear synthetics which cause more charge buildup. All this with a cell phone in hand. Leading some imbecile to the cell phone connection.

Keith Cress
Flamin Systems, Inc.-

http://www.flaminsystems.com

 

[jraef]

I agree with itsmoked. There is a video clip circulating, showing a woman getting flash burned at a gas pump. I don't recall if she had a cell phone in her hand, but it was obvious in the video that it was a static spark from her sleeve that ignited the fumes.

She was fine BTW in case you have never seen the video. She just calmly places the hose back into the cradle once the flames go out. Fairly cool head really.

Eng-Tips: Help for your job, not for your homework Read faq731-376

 

[dpc]

I think most serious injuries have occurred when the person reflexively pulls the nozzle out and runs away with it when the initial ignition occurs.

But we don't have self-service gas stations here, so I'll have to find something else to worry about.

 

[jraef]

Ah, you must live in Oregon! The last bastion of the "Gas Station Attendant as a career goal" set.

 

[davidbeach]

I understand that New Jersey is also as civilized as Oregon. No standing in the rain and wind minding the gas pump; I can't understand the outsiders who come here and would rather pump their own gas than have someone else deal with the mess. Driving a diesel makes one appreciate the attendant even more, no more diesel smell on my hands.

 

[itsmoked]

Ah yes Organ... I always fuel up just at the border so I can make it across..

And if you drove a Renault 10 you would understand why a person would want to pump his own gas. The fuel fill was a radiator capped pipe in the engine compartment near the radiator fill. Located directly above the ventilated distributor cap. Spill a few tablespoons of fuel and you have an ignition key triggered fire ball. I can't tell you how many times some slack jawed local would wander around with the gas nozzle until I got out and essentially did the fueling verbally.

Keith Cress
Flamin Systems, Inc.-

http://www.flaminsystems.com

 

[davidbeach]

Who would put the fuel filler in the engine compartment???? Geesh.

There is an exception to the rule that allows a motorcycle driver to place and remove the nozzle as a result of too many complaints about spills on the paint. But on the whole, I find it a much better system than having to get out in the rain and the wind to do it myself. When the wind is coming out of the gorge, the canopy on the fuel island is in the wrong orientation to do any good at keeping the rain out, and besides, you know it rains here all the time. (Probably not really very funny at the moment for those in northern California.)

 

[itsmoked]

Yeah now up to 42inches.. Normal=28inches.

Front page of the paper shows each day's mudslide victims.

Today some guy bought a new house six months ago up in the local hills.. Then a 300' X 600' chunk of the hillside came down thru their house. Poor buggers.

Keith Cress
Flamin Systems, Inc.-

http://www.flaminsystems.com

 

[Comcokid]

There have been incidents of cell phones causing fires in the usual industrial "intrinsic safety" environments - on offshore platforms and at oil wells. Being within 10 feet of a gas pump would classify as an intrinsic safety environment as well.

Lets not forget that some cell phones with defective batteries have exploded and caused fires even without being near a gas pump.

Despite the popularity, "Myth busters" is not an approved testing agency - and sometimes are trying to make engineering judgments far outside of their specialty.

 

[itsmoked]

Comcokid; I would not believe that a working cell phone would ever start a fire... Unless someone can explain how to turn a watt of RF into a spark.
Short of internal sparking, (which I can't picture in a cell phone). I would believe that it could cause a sensor signal to freak out leading to mis-control of a process that could be very hazardous. But I can see no control systems at or near a gas pump that this would ever apply to(motor on/motor off).

I also agree with your MB as not being the final word... I see total bunglelation frequently on that show. (still fun to watch though)


Keith Cress
Flamin Systems, Inc.-

http://www.flaminsystems.com

 

[VEBill]

If cell phones are significantly dangerous around gasoline pumps, then I suppose rational logic (*) would dictate that automobiles (with their arcing and sparking open-wire ignition systems, massive solenoids, electrically-operated everything, etc. etc.) should also be kept well away from gasoline pumps at all times. One can't be too careful.


('*' indicates the flaw in the argument...)

http://www.google.com/search?q=Chardonay+in+one+hand,+chocolate+in+the+other

 

[OperaHouse]

I thought that myth was created because the pump's electronics were initially designed with very poor RFI supression.

 

[itsmoked]

oh! Oh!!! A conspiracy theory!

Works for me.

Keith Cress
Flamin Systems, Inc.-

http://www.flaminsystems.com

 

[MacGyverS2000]

Although it's complete bunk, most who believe it to be bunk typically think such a low-power RF signal cannot start a fire (and stop at RF being the only possibility). If it WERE true, though, I could easily see someone trying to blame an arcing vibrator motor. Of course, those motors don't arc, but...


Dan
Owner

http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

 

[VEBill]

RFI - 0.6 watt cell phone? What about the 100,000 watt FM broadcast station around the corner?


There must be a long German compound word that refers to the scientifically-illiterate administrative staff addressing only what they can see with their own eyes buffered from the more complex reality by the vacuum of their own ignorance. ;-)