Does anyone have any experience with stainless castings approximating the compositions of 201 or 202? How about cast equivalents to 2101 and 2003?
Michael McGuire
Michael McGuire
Tek-Tips is the largest IT community on the Internet today!
Members share and learn making Tek-Tips Forums the best source of peer-reviewed technical information on the Internet!
-
Congratulations TugboatEng on being selected by the Eng-Tips community for having the most helpful posts in the forums last week. Way to Go!
cast 2xx 5
- Thread starter mcguire
- Start date
-
1
- #2
EdStainless
Materials
MM,
I have a call in to a friend in Europe. We'll see what he says about a cast 2101 type.
Have UNS numbers ever been assigned for cast 2xx alloys? I sure don't know of any.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Rust never sleeps
Neither should your protection
I have a call in to a friend in Europe. We'll see what he says about a cast 2101 type.
Have UNS numbers ever been assigned for cast 2xx alloys? I sure don't know of any.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Rust never sleeps
Neither should your protection
-
2
- #3
I have made castings in these alloys about 5 years ago. . These are very popularly used in paper industries. Some of the parts cast are refiner segments, pump parts,pulp mixer blades,centricleaner casing etc. Castability wise there were no major issues.
There has been a revisit to 201 castings in steel rolling mills for the parts which were originally cast in CF8. I have done a few of these replacements in recent times.
" All that is necessary for triumph of evil is that good men do nothing".
Edmund Burke
There has been a revisit to 201 castings in steel rolling mills for the parts which were originally cast in CF8. I have done a few of these replacements in recent times.
" All that is necessary for triumph of evil is that good men do nothing".
Edmund Burke
-
1
- Thread starter
- #4
Thanks, Arunmrao
Do you have any specifications for these 2xx type alloys? Do they have UNS numbers? Is the manganese a problem for your refractories?
Michael McGuire
Do you have any specifications for these 2xx type alloys? Do they have UNS numbers? Is the manganese a problem for your refractories?
Michael McGuire
No these were cast with the same wrought series identification. Ihad not promised mechanical properties of 201/202 grades but agreed to conform to the chemistries only. My presence is mostly in the after markets and not OE,hence many issues get overlooked,as the need is urgent for a replacement.
I use a basic lining in the furnace , hence high Mn content did not pose any major issue.
" All that is necessary for triumph of evil is that good men do nothing".
Edmund Burke
I use a basic lining in the furnace , hence high Mn content did not pose any major issue.
" All that is necessary for triumph of evil is that good men do nothing".
Edmund Burke
- Thread starter
- #6
What's the highest nitrogen level you have cast in stainless alloys?
Michael McGuire
Michael McGuire
EdStainless
Materials
I'll interupt, I had to go back and pull some notes.
I haven't done much, just some pump stages.
The only duplexes that I ever cast were 2205 and 2304. The 2304 has low N, maybe 0.10%. The 2205 was usually 0.20-0.25%. We were melting small heats (50lb or 300lb) in induction furnaces and charging with about 1/3 scrap, 1/2 master alloy, balance virgin metals. We melted under a nitrogen blanket, but didn't bubble any through the metal.
I never melted any 2xx alloys, but we did melt a Ni-Resist grade with Mn sub for part of the Ni. It worked, but in those days it wasn't worth the effort.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Rust never sleeps
Neither should your protection
I haven't done much, just some pump stages.
The only duplexes that I ever cast were 2205 and 2304. The 2304 has low N, maybe 0.10%. The 2205 was usually 0.20-0.25%. We were melting small heats (50lb or 300lb) in induction furnaces and charging with about 1/3 scrap, 1/2 master alloy, balance virgin metals. We melted under a nitrogen blanket, but didn't bubble any through the metal.
I never melted any 2xx alloys, but we did melt a Ni-Resist grade with Mn sub for part of the Ni. It worked, but in those days it wasn't worth the effort.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Rust never sleeps
Neither should your protection
- Thread starter
- #8
I surely think the world is missing out by not replacing 316 with 2101 and 2003. Using high nickel alloys is the metallurgical equivalent of promoting global warming, i.e. doing dumb, expensive things at one's own penalty.
Michael McGuire
Michael McGuire
Mcguire please shout loud over the roof tops your statement "The world is missing out by not replacing 316 wth 2101 and 2003 alloys".
However,watch out for the hounds from the powerful Ni lobby.
" All that is necessary for triumph of evil is that good men do nothing".
Edmund Burke
However,watch out for the hounds from the powerful Ni lobby.
" All that is necessary for triumph of evil is that good men do nothing".
Edmund Burke
- Thread starter
- #10
Ah, the beauty of being an independently wealthy metallurgist! It's wonderful to care not one bit for INCO or Norilsk or whoever else is ripping off the consumer for this dubious element. They live on bad metallurgy.
Michael McGuire
Michael McGuire
-
1
- #11
EdStainless
Materials
I don't want to quit using Ni. I just don't want to use any more than I have to. A 4% Ni 201 will usually replace an 8% 304 just fine. On the other hand I have seen some very bad 1% Ni material that was called 201 that wouldn't make anything usable.
When I work with customers on alloy changes my mantra is that it has to make long term sense, "Would you still do if Ni were $2/lb?"
My basic logic goes something like this. What are you using now, 304. Can you make the part lighter if the alloy is stronger? If not then look into 439 and 201. If you can then LDX2101 may be the better option.
If you are using 316, then AL2003 is the most direct alternative. If you want more corrosion resistance, and you can take some weight out then 2205 is an option.
Do you need higher corrosion resistance. How about using a superferritic in place of a superaustenitic. Even if you just do this for a portion of your assembly you can save a lot.
If you are going to high temperatures or working in aggressive environments then nothing beats Ni. Just make sure that you use it smart.
Oh by the way, word is that Mo will top $30/lb in May.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Rust never sleeps
Neither should your protection
When I work with customers on alloy changes my mantra is that it has to make long term sense, "Would you still do if Ni were $2/lb?"
My basic logic goes something like this. What are you using now, 304. Can you make the part lighter if the alloy is stronger? If not then look into 439 and 201. If you can then LDX2101 may be the better option.
If you are using 316, then AL2003 is the most direct alternative. If you want more corrosion resistance, and you can take some weight out then 2205 is an option.
Do you need higher corrosion resistance. How about using a superferritic in place of a superaustenitic. Even if you just do this for a portion of your assembly you can save a lot.
If you are going to high temperatures or working in aggressive environments then nothing beats Ni. Just make sure that you use it smart.
Oh by the way, word is that Mo will top $30/lb in May.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Rust never sleeps
Neither should your protection
Ed,You are right in the high temperature alloys,there is still no substitute for Ni. To make castings in high Ni alloys,one must have an assured source of reliable Ni containing scrap at economical prices. This wish is getting to be utopian.
I have lost a number of orders as I quote using virgin metals!!
" All that is necessary for triumph of evil is that good men do nothing".
Edmund Burke
I have lost a number of orders as I quote using virgin metals!!
" All that is necessary for triumph of evil is that good men do nothing".
Edmund Burke
EdStainless
Materials
I hate to say this, but I don't mind $20/lb Ni. I just want to know that it will still be that price 9 months from now. The instability is too big of a risk for many people.
I'll bet that many of those jobs that you lost never happened. With prices fluctuating so much how can anyone plan.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Rust never sleeps
Neither should your protection
I'll bet that many of those jobs that you lost never happened. With prices fluctuating so much how can anyone plan.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Rust never sleeps
Neither should your protection
- Thread starter
- #15
I would quote every job in the material specified and with a lower cost substitute material. That will cause some reaction.
Michael McGuire
Michael McGuire
metengr
knowledgeable and responsible end users like you should make a difference in material selection. When a vendor like me suggests it is always viewed with suspicion.Convinicing is tough for there are commercial implications like damage to equipment or plant interruptions.
" All that is necessary for triumph of evil is that good men do nothing".
Edmund Burke
knowledgeable and responsible end users like you should make a difference in material selection. When a vendor like me suggests it is always viewed with suspicion.Convinicing is tough for there are commercial implications like damage to equipment or plant interruptions.
" All that is necessary for triumph of evil is that good men do nothing".
Edmund Burke
- Thread starter
- #18
Change is never easy, but there is no progress without it and the discomfort it brings. Full speed ahead!
Michael McGuire
Michael McGuire
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
- Question
- Locked
- Question
- Locked
- Question