Calculator Input 12

[civeng80]

My old canon calculator I've had for 21 years finally gave up the ghost.

Ive been trying my son's canon calculator but dont like the input method, e.g. sin, cos, square root before number input i.e. operation done as you would write it on paper. They all seem to be like this nowadays.
I think the older calculators used reverse algebraic input, but they dont seem to have them anymore. I know Hp have RPN but dont want to get HP anymore prefer casio or canon.

Anyone have any suggestions ?

 

[XR250]

@KootK;
That is one of the things I love about RPN is that it makes you do some mental mathematics. Keeps the old noggin youngish.

 

[KootK]

What exam force you to use an non-RPN calculator.

One of the older versions of Washington state's SE exam. In the end, it turned out that they would have been okay with a non-communicating HP. Back in the day, however, the state exams were a bit less organized than they are now and the instructions sometimes left a bit to be desired. Plus they'd only communicate with me via registered international mail.

I like to debate structural engineering theory -- a lot. If I challenge you on something, know that I'm doing so because I respect your opinion enough to either change it or adopt it.

 

[XR250]

@Kootk - Sorry, I misread your post about order of operations. Now I get it.

 

[Archie264]

One of the older versions of Washington state's SE exam. In the end, it turned out that they would have been okay with a non-communicating HP. Back in the day, however, the state exams were a bit less organized than they are now and the instructions sometimes left a bit to be desired. Plus they'd only communicate with me via registered international mail.

Ah, ok, thanks.

 

[IDS]

As for algebraic calculators wherein the user types in the whole equation before getting any result I see no advantage to that over simply using Excel to do the same.

If you are sitting at a desk with a computer on it, I see no advantage in using a calculator for anything. I have one sitting o a bookshelf over there, but I can't remember the last time I used it.

Doug Jenkins
Interactive Design Services

http://newtonexcelbach.wordpress.com/

 

[civeng80]

RPN doesn't stack up !

RNP is good but not perfect IMHO. The stacks are limited (there are about 5) so that for a really long chain calculation the stacks may not be enough to do the entire calculation and results are lost along the way. At least this is what I can remember with my HP45 in my student engineering days.

 

[Archie264]

RPN only* has 4 stacks, actually. And in many years of using it on a near-daily basis I've never needed a fifth one. The key is to start "inside" the equation and work your way out.

*Algebraic has 2 stacks.

 

[KootK]

It's also important to note that the stacks on most of the HP's are infinite. You lose things from view but they're still there for use. Like a calculation Jedi, you just have to learn to trust. Stacked RPN systems are so easy to use that people seem to forget that they also have very good memory key functionality as well, just like the *cough* lesser products.

I like to debate structural engineering theory -- a lot. If I challenge you on something, know that I'm doing so because I respect your opinion enough to either change it or adopt it.

 

[medeek]

My HP48G finally gave up the ghost so I moved to the HP50g. The tactile feel is a little bit strange but not unbearable, you get used to it. What bothers me more is the re-arrangement of all the keys and the missing "drop" and "swap" keys which were very handy. The one other minor problem I noticed is when keying in successive digits quickly, try keying in a 22 quickly and you will see what I mean, the calculator will only take one of the keystrokes. This can be slightly annoying.

It is kind of sad when a perfectly good product is discontinued for an inferior product.


A confused student is a good student.
Nathaniel P. Wilkerson, PE

http://www.medeek.com

 

[KootK]

My HP48G finally gave up the ghost

I had two and lost both to bunk enter keys. The tactile keys are great but I think a little more delicate than other styles.

The one other minor problem I noticed is when keying in successive digits quickly, try keying in a 22 quickly and you will see what I mean, the calculator will only take one of the keystrokes. This can be slightly annoying.

I went bongos over this initially too. It can be fixed by messing with the KEYTIME variable.

I like to debate structural engineering theory -- a lot. If I challenge you on something, know that I'm doing so because I respect your opinion enough to either change it or adopt it.

 

[IRstuff]

"It's also important to note that the stacks on most of the HP's are infinite."

HP calculators have 4 stack registers, often referred to as X, Y, Z, T, which can be verified by pushing stuff onto the stack and then rolling the stack. Enter 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 then R↓, and you get 5, 4, 3, 5, 5, 4, 3, 5, 5 That's because the X register is the display register, so R↓ pushes the 5 in the X register into T, and the 5 that was entered, which wound up in Y, gets rolled into X and is displayed.

some HP emulators actually allow you to see the 4 registers.

As for the number of registers, since common math operations are binary operations with two operands, there would not be any need to have much more than 4 registers. If there were more than 4, humans would tend to lose track of what's in which register beyond 7. HP made the T register self-replicating, in the sense that if you pop things off the stack, T remains the same, i.e., enter 1, 2, 3, clear, +, clear, +, clear, +, clear, +, and 1 keeps showing up.

TTFN
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert!
homework forum: //

http://www.engineering.com/AskForum/aff/32.aspx

faq731-376 forum1529

 

[KootK]

HP calculators have 4 stack registers

On my 50g:

1) Type 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9
2) Hit [+] eight times.
3) Result = 45

Infinite stack on some models. I found the four stack 32S a bit limiting for the California surveying exam. I actually had to write some intermediate values down which I found thoroughly unacceptable.

I like to debate structural engineering theory -- a lot. If I challenge you on something, know that I'm doing so because I respect your opinion enough to either change it or adopt it.

 

[Archie264]

>>>I found the four stack 32S a bit limiting for the California surveying exam. I actually had to write some intermediate values down which I found thoroughly unacceptable.<<<

Those must have been some hellatious equations.

 

[KootK]

Those must have been some hellatious equations.

Not really. The ones that I remember were just location tracking. Here's how I would have done it on my real HP:

1) Clear stack.
2) Enter starting elevation and leave on stack.
3) Calculate elevation change over 2% cross slope to side of road. Leave on stack.
4) Calculate elevation change to apex of vertical curve. Leave on stack.
5) Enter depth to bottom of manhole thing. Leave on stack.
6) Burrow underground at 1% for 100' for some reason. Leave on stack.
7) Aim for the zenith less 15 degrees and travel for six chains. Leave on stack.
8) Travel vertically 2.25 rotation on a 6" pitch helical travel path.
....
38) Hit enter until there's only one number left

Yeah, I could have kept a running total somewhere. But why should I have to? I have trust issues and infinite stack technology has been around since the 90's.




I like to debate structural engineering theory -- a lot. If I challenge you on something, know that I'm doing so because I respect your opinion enough to either change it or adopt it.

 

[rapt]

For those who still love RPN and the old HP41/42 (my late 1970's 41c died several years ago as the recharagable battery pack gave up and I could not find a replacement), Free42 (

http://thomasokken.com/free42/)

is now my calculator of choice on both my computer and my phone.

 

[XR250]

If you are sitting at a desk with a computer on it, I see no advantage in using a calculator for anything. I have one sitting o a bookshelf over there, but I can't remember the last time I used it

Seriously? If you are using a computer for everything, you are wasting time. I can size a beam on my calculator faster than I type in the job name in my fancy beam program.

 

[IDS]

Seriously? If you are using a computer for everything, you are wasting time. I can size a beam on my calculator faster than I type in the job name in my fancy beam program.

No, I don't waste any time. There is nothing that can be done on a calculator that can't be done at least as quickly on a spreadsheet. And with a spreadsheet you have a record of what you just did, access to much more sophisticated procedures on the spreadsheet or using VBA, and you can also interact with all sorts of other software.

I'm not saying there is anything wrong with using a calculator, there are lots of calculations where they are just as good as a spreadsheet. Just for me they don't add any value.

Doug Jenkins
Interactive Design Services

http://newtonexcelbach.wordpress.com/

 

[medeek]

The calculator still has its place, the slide rule does not.

The reason for taking the time to create a spreadsheet is simple, once you do a problem there is no point in having to re-invent the wheel each time you encounter a similar problem. I have many worksheets for lots of seemingly insignificant problems that I could probably hand calc but as IDS suggest for most jobs you need a record of the calculations and the spreadsheet saves me from writer's cramp.

@KootK

Thanks for the KEYTIME tip on the HP50g, just fixed that.

A confused student is a good student.
Nathaniel P. Wilkerson, PE

http://www.medeek.com

 

[Archie264]

Kootk, I would have just summed it as I went. And if it was indeed 38 terms I might have also written them down individually to run a double-check calculation at the end of it all as I don't trust myself to get that many of them right. Now with an adding machine, on the other hand...but I suppose that belongs on the accounting forum...

 

[SlideRuleEra]

The calculator still has its place, the slide rule does not.

Ohhhh! That hurts... but true!
Knowing how to use a slide rule does have one advantage:

http://www.slideruleera.net/MaintainSharpInstincts.pdf

http://www.SlideRuleEra.net

http://www.VacuumTubeEra.net