CAD software for metal stamping company 1

[TiagoFigueiredo]

Hello,
I need some help from all of you.

I'm, with some friends, creating a new company, where we will develop metal stamping tooling (progressive and transfer dies). We are evaluating the needed softwares, and the most proper ones from our job.
Today in the company that we all still work, we use NX and CATIA (I'm a CATIA user). But as far as we have noticed, CATIA and NX are truly expensive softwares, and we need to ponder what to use for our new company.

What we are evaluating.
For simulation we had chosen autoform (that's closed)

For cad we have several possible solutions.
CATIA -> Not much probable, due to price
NX -> Not much probable, due to price
Creo -> interesting choice, but there is some lacks. To create metal stamping layouts, determine the pre cuts, make some quick analysis to metal stamped parts, there is not enough good tools. But for modeling and general surfacing, looks really powerful. Price looks reasonable.
Cimatron -> Very nice to determine the pre cuts, make some quick analysis to metal stamped parts. For 3d modeling there is plenty of libraries for metal stamping tools, But we don't know much about their capabilities to Draw. Price we still don't know.
ZW3D ->Very nice to determine the pre cuts, make some quick analysis to metal stamped parts. Interesting modeling options. Very low market share. Really interesting price
VISI ->Very good to determine the pre cuts, make some quick analysis to metal stamped parts. Interesting morphing capabilities to prevent spring back. Looks good also in surfacing and in general preparation of parts surfaces. It doesn't work with individual parts, it's parametric philosophy it's to limited. Price we still don't know.
SolidWorks -> we have tested it and there is a few things that we have disliked it, so it's not in the equation.
SolidEdge -> we have tested it and there is a few things that we have disliked it, so it's not in the equation.
Autodesk Inventor -> we have tested it and there is a few things that we have disliked it, so it's not in the equation.


Looking to our resarch, there is not a software that can provides a powerful choice for every area that we will need. So we are open to have 2 softwares for diferent needs.

For example:
Visi + Cre
Visi + Cimatron.

What do you know about these softwares, and their capabilities for this type of work?
Do you know any other softwares that can fulfill our needs?

Thanks

Tiago Figueiredo
Tooling Engineer

Youtube channel:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1qdlBeJJEgMgpPLVJoOIOw

 

[SDETERS]

have you taken a good look at Onshape? Just another Tool that is out there doing some good things.

 

[Markus Hugo]

Hi Tiago,

So i work side by with die designers and we use 4 different programs; NX, Key Creator, Solid Edge and Visi. I find we can all do the exact same thing. Key creator costs around $3000 and it can do everything NX can do. Visi seems to be the most flexible and cost effective for many reasons. If you want to add Visi sping back analysis it might cost you $500 but if you want to add it to NX it will cost you $7000. So i switch and use Visi for spring back analysis. Also surfacing is faster in Visi compared to NX. Sometimes we will compete to see who can do something faster and visi seems to be better for surfacing or maybe i am just a bit slower! Also even though you made up your mind with Autoform, its triple the cost of DynaForm. DynaForm has caught up with Autoform technology wise apparently. Hope this helps.

Mark Hugo
NX11 Die Designer

 

[Markus Hugo]

Onshape currently cannot perform surfacing operations. I tested it recently and you cannot even trim blocks. I am sure they will eventually though, lots of frequent updates. Onshape is developed by former solid works CEO and employees so its very similar. Web based cad is very flexible too and there payment terms are pretty cool, pay monthly but indefinitely.

Mark Hugo
NX11 Die Designer

 

[Rob_N]

If you can afford Autoform, NX or Catia shouldn't make much difference.
Our 1 Autoform license costs more per year than all of Maintenence on our other software combined (NX,Peps,Worknc,PCdmis.

Look into leasing options for your startup rather than purchasing perpetual licenses.
Here is Detroit area, Visi is very popular in the die/mold design area.

 

[TiagoFigueiredo]

Markus Hugo - És português?

Tiago Figueiredo
Tooling Engineer

Youtube channel:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1qdlBeJJEgMgpPLVJoOIOw

 

[TiagoFigueiredo]

Markus Hugo, does Visi has a assembly structure like Catia or NX? Has it parametric modeling also?

I heard a few things about visi, and looks also real powerfull in terms of process design. But in terms of tooling design, I have some concerns.

Tiago Figueiredo
Tooling Engineer

Youtube channel:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1qdlBeJJEgMgpPLVJoOIOw

 

[TiagoFigueiredo]

And about Cimatron, anybody have use it?

Tiago Figueiredo
Tooling Engineer

Youtube channel:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1qdlBeJJEgMgpPLVJoOIOw

 

[Markus Hugo]

Yes Visi is parametric. It does look similar, you organize into layers and groups. When someone imports my NX design into Visi it does maintain all my organization which is pretty neat. The competing tool shops in Ontario and Michigan are mix of NX and Visi from my experience. I'm originally from S.Africa. I've never met anyone who has used Cimatron

Mark Hugo
NX11 Die Designer

 

[3dr]

Your target customer base may have some influence on what to select. A lot of the more advanced shops in the Grand Rapids area use Visi exclusively. And they won't accept designs in a neutral format like step. They leverage the MFG intelligence built into the model for programming on the shop side.

I'm an NX Tool designer and it hurt to have connections there and not be able to leverage them.

I didn't switch to Visi because I also do a lot of other types of work besides tooling and it didn't seem like it was a fit for that. NX will perform well in all classes of design.

It also seemed daunting to learn another software from the ground up. Especially one that departed from the normal assembly & parametric formats most other software's use. I've got years into NX and there is little I can't do.

And its hard enough to afford one package. Two was out of the question.



Dave
Automotive Tooling / Aircraft Tooling / Ground Support Structures

NX9, Win 7 Pro SP1

 

[TiagoFigueiredo]

Thanks all of you by your help.
Visi looks impressive for surface design, springback compensation (IMHO looks better than nx in springback). What I deslike in Visi, is that don't have an assembly structure like NX, CATIA...
I'm also evaluating creo vs NX for general tooling design. Why creo, price looks much more interesting than NX, with similar capabilities.

Tiago Figueiredo
Tooling Engineer

Youtube channel:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1qdlBeJJEgMgpPLVJoOIOw

 

[Rob_N]

I don't know of a single company that uses Pro/E , Creo as their primary tooling design package. The US Govt and contractors use it.

If you're going to learn something new, Visi is far more popular in the Die/Mold world. The translators that Vero uses work very well with NX and Catia data as well.
We don't have Visi here, but I always request the native Visi data along with a STEP or X_T file. I can open the Visi file in WorkNC or WOrkxplore and see layer names, attributes and other important info that doesn't make it in the step or x_t.

Side note. Visi supports wireframe and points via parasolid file. I found this out when I open a Parasolid in NX from a vendor who modeled a die for us in Visi. NX cant export curves and points in parasolid, but visi can.

 

[3dr]

I've run across a lot of companies using Creo for their enterprise product design platform. But definitely not tool shops. I've never seen that.

If your working for less advanced tool shops your deliverable's are generally step assemblies and dxf drafting. So you can use what ever.

But I agree with robnewcomb, if I had to start over it would be VISI. Their product is specifically for the tooling industry, proven and used by the best. If $ prevents it that can't be helped but otherwise... why would you choose less if that's your target market.




Dave
Automotive Tooling / Aircraft Tooling / Ground Support Structures

NX9, Win 7 Pro SP1