Boss Problems 12

[Tunalover]

I'm a mechanical engineer who has worked in the electronics industry for 20yrs doing electromechanical packaging design. The problem I have is that my boss (who is an EE) thinks he can do my job and tends to minimize and oversimplify what I do. I bring much to the table (e.g. heat transfer analysis, CAD design, stress analysis, drafting skills, specmanship, shock/vibration analysis, industry standards and practices,...) however, in my last performance review, much of the time-consuming, day-to-day stuff that I do was ignored as he concentrated only on what was on his and his boss' "radar screen."

How can I impress on him that he is not qualified to do my job (let alone qualified to judge me!) and that he has much to learn about what me and my peers do for the industry? One constant I have noticed in my career is that many EEs seem to think that they are intellectually superior to the MEs!


Tunalover

 

[TheTick]

Yep. Wire-biters are like that. Don't really know why. I know more ME's adept at EE than vice-versa.

"Customer satisfaction, while theoretically possible, is neither guaranteed nor statistically likely.--E.L. Kersten

http://www.EsoxRepublic.com

 

[melone]

Perhaps you are just focusing your time on projects that he deems "less important"? At the end of the day, he/she will be responsible for the total work output of his group. Even if you feel like your boss is not "qualified" to judge you, you might might be surprised with his/her knowledge of task priorities / importance.

Also, the nice thing about being "the boss" is that you do not have to do the work, just make sure that it gets done.

 

[GGOSS]

Hello Tunalover,

Not sure if you're AKA means that you love fishing for Tuna or that you have an strange fetish, but hope that it's the former.

Even though I am in a managerial position, I have a similar problem to those which you describe after much effort and frustration, I've resigned myself to the fact that it's probably best to move on, even thoug I really enjoy what I do.

I hope you understand that I am not suggesting you should do the same, just wanted to point out that sometimes there's absolutely nothing you can do to change the thinking of your superiors.

Regards,
GGOSS

 

[TrevorP]

One thing I've noticed generally in life, is that those people who tend to constantly criticise and belittle others lack confidence in their own abilities.

Does your boss have the same attitude towards your co-workers, or just with you? If it's just you, then it's possibly a personality clash, if it's everybody that works for him then it's most likely his personality.

Either way, I would generally tend to support what GGOSS says, in that you are unlikely to be able to change this, although you have slightly more of a chance if it's just you!

However, even if you can't change the situation, you may be able to manage it. In my opinion, it's just as (if not more) important to manage the people above you in an organisation as it is those reporting to you!

Firstly, understand what he wants. You MUST do this in a non-confrontational way, and when you are both reasonably relaxed. Go into his office, and ask him if you can have a word, and if you mind if you close the door. That will get his attention - guaranteed. Then calmly walk to a seat and sit down. Then tell him that there are some issues that he raised in your development review that you've been thinking about, and you'd like to discuss further.

If he's saying to you that you're not doing what he and his boss consider are important, then that may be a valid point. Try to elicit what exactly it is he does want. What areas would he prefer you to concentrate on? And, just as importantly, are there any things that you do, that he thinks you're wasting your time on? If he doesn't think that something you do is important, but really it is, tell him why you think it's important. Don't get into an argument though. Try something like - "Well I'll certainly try that, but if I don't do it, it might mean that something else will suffer".
Ask him what else would he like to see change about the way you work. Maybe he thinks you would benefit from a time management course, etc.? If so, give him the opportunity to say so, and try to respond positively to any suggestions.

Finally, after this give yourselves both some time to think things over, and come back with any other ideas. The onus is on you to make sure you follow this up regularly. Has he seen any improvement in the way you work as far as he is concerned? Is there anything else he'd like you to do?

If this doesn't work, or you are unwilling to adopt this approach to help to improve the situation, then you have 2 options - either put up with it or move. If you decide to move, it's often a good idea to look internally first.

One approach might be to tell your boss that you need some broader experience within the company, and can he find out if you could be seconded to a project within a different team.

Hope some of this helps. Let us know how you get on.

 

[buzzp]

EE's are superior. No just kidding. The cross discipline rivalry that you enjoyed in college has apparently followed you to your job. There is not much to be done to improve this if this is really the case.
However, you will find that many managers are not qualified to evaluate you, technically. This is a way of life in the engineering field. I have worked for EE's and agricultural engineers (never knew this was a disciipline). Of course, I liked working for a boss that was an EE because he did show some favoritism. Now, the tables have turned and I work for a Civil (heaven help me-another joke).
If this issue is really discipline related, I suggest you find another job as this one will lead no where. If the boss just does not think your valuable, lay your calculations/simulations in front of him and ask him to review them for you. Just casually pass it off as you wanting is 'expert' opinion. Once he realizes you really are doing engineering work maybe his eyes will open. Maybe they won't.
I think it is safe to say that mechanicals working for an electrical company may have a disadvantage. Also, an electrical working for a company geared more towards mechanical things may also have a disadvantage. I mean there bread and butter is electrical work not mechanical. It is just one of those things you have to deal with. Good luck.

 

[buzzp]

We really should not carry over the discipline rivalry into such a forum.
I would expect that the Tick really does know more MEs adept at EE work because HE WORKS MORE WITH ME's. I mean come on, if we really want to go their we can.

 

[tulum]

I agree with Buzzp...

Tunalover says that "The problem I have is that my boss (who is an EE) thinks he can do my job and tends to minimize and oversimplify what I do".

The funny thing is that in the next reply theTick says, " know more ME's adept at EE than vice-versa..."

... to reply to the theTick: are the ME's really more adept? or do you just think they can do the job of an EE and you might be minimizing and oversimplifying what an EE really does??

 

[Tunalover]

The MEs do traditionally score higher on the FE exam but I certainly never pretend to be able to do an EEs job (particularly RF and Microwave Engrg). I cross into their discipline more so than they know but many simply do not have a broad enough perspective to know what they don't know (if that makes any sense!)

Tunalover

 

[MikeHalloran]

I'm better at EE than most MEs, and many EEs, but mostly because of stuff that I had re-learn in order to make anything happen at an "... Electronics" company, where all the helping hands you needed were at the end of your own arms.

Funny thing about that outfit; they made blood cell counters, which typically have hugely complex fluid systems and very complex mechanical systems. I.e., most of the hard problems were in mechanical design. They kept hiring EEs to solve mechanical problems, and they never did figure out why the products were legendary for their unreliability.

Actual customer comment: "I love my xxx brand machines because the serviceman is always here. I'm not going to buy any more of them, though, because ... the serviceman is always here."




Mike Halloran
NOT speaking for
DeAngelo Marine Exhaust Inc.
Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA

 

[DRC1]

Lets face it, in most firms the guys who are really good at engineering go up the ladder the slowest. Why? because there are not a lot of people who are good at it, it takes a couple of years to get good at it, and if they tell you you are doing well, they will eventually have to promote you. Then they would need to find some one else. If you are really doing a good job and seem stuck, it probably because you are doing a good job.

 

[mshimko]

I've found that there is often a "pecking" order at companies. This order may vary firm to firm, but there is often one, and there's seldom much you can do about it other than (a) do you best and hope it's noticed; (b) don't do your best and be miserable, or (c) move on.

I heard an interesting example of this about 10 years ago at an ASME meeting. The guest speaker was a ME who worked for the Disney Corporation. His talk described (1) the new (at the time) race-car ride (I forget its name) & a few engineering challenges; and (2) how new rides are created.

In talking about how rides were created, he mentioned the Disney food chain - "artists" (the creative types) are at the top, and engineers were near the bottom. The "artists" dreamed up an idea, and the engineers found a way to make it happen.

This seemed a good example where I doubt very much that an engineer could ever be recognized on a level with the "artists"; but if enjoy the work you get over this aspect.

 

[TrainerBob]

"How can I impress on him that he is not qualified to do my job (let alone qualified to judge me!) and that he has much to learn about what me and my peers do for the industry?"

Hoo, boy, with that attitude, you're lucky to be employed! Of COURSE he's qualified to judge you. He's the boss. If he doesn't know what you are doing, it's because you haven't told him. I used to hate the annual performance reviews, then I started taking notes all year long of what I'm doing, and MOST IMPORTANTLY what the results are. Now my performance reviews show exactly what I do and how well I do it. My boss knows exactly what I do, and again MOST IMPORTANTLY what the results were. Effort doesn't matter. Clever engineering doesn't matter. Results matter.

 

[MikeHalloran]

Well said, TrainerBob.

So as to be able to answer questions about what I've been doing, I also take notes. For each and every project, I keep a Notepad file, describing what was said and what was done. Notepad provides a useful way to record 'when'; just hit F5, and you get a time/date stamp.






Mike Halloran
NOT speaking for
DeAngelo Marine Exhaust Inc.
Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA

 

[APH]

well...I always take notes....just incase I need to update my resume, I know what I have done..

Cheers
APH

 

[Tunalover]

TrainerBob-
So you believe that my bosses is qualified to judge me simply because he's my boss. What planet are you from? Are you in education or management by any chance?





Tunalover

 

[GregLocock]

Yes, if he is a good boss then he is qualified. He does not have to understand the technical ins and outs of your job, he can rely on your peers and ciutomers feedback to do that. What he can do is measure your performance and contribution to the team.

I know what you mean though, I have had bosses whose opinion was frankly irrelevant.

Cheers

Greg Locock

 

[mshimko]

Supervisors are qualified to judge those they supervise - by definition!

This may or may not be fair; the boss may or may not be competent; but this is part of what HIS responsibilities are. It matters not what his education is, or experience. If he is the boss, then he not only has the authority to judge you, he has the responsibility to judge you.

Similarly, the boss is judged by HIS BOSS, and so on.

This system may not be perfect, but as the saying goes, until a better system is proposed AND enacted, it IS the system we have. Either accept it, or forever be unhappy.

 

[BobPE]

tunalover...I would have to say trainerBob is from the same planet that I (and most others here in Eng-Tips) am from....

Imagine your company as a dog....your boss is a flea on the body of the dog (management).....you are the tail(labor).....As we know life on this planet, the dog wags the tail(management runs labor)...your boss is getting a different view of the dog than you are, even though you are on the same dog....now when the tail can wag the dog(labor runs management)...do we really need the dog(company) at that point?

I have never worked for a non-engineer manager before, and never will...I have quit positions becuase of this conflict...so in my warped way of looking at it, you can say I jumped off one dogs tail and onto anothers body....and if I end up back on the tail again, I will find yet another dog....

BobPE

 

[DRC1]

Baloney.
A Boss has to understand the technical ins and outs. He also has to have aclear vision of where he wants the project to go (beyond simply showing a 20% margin) how he wants to get there and what your part in the process is. He also has to not only clearly communicate this plan, but make sure it is going where he wants it to go. This is leadership (a bosses job) anythigh else is just pionting and hoping the project gets there. (This is what a "boss" does if he doesn't understand the process).
A person is supervisor by appointment. A person is a boss by his (or her) ability to lead.