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BOILER DESIGN SOFTWARE 2
- Thread starter IMV
- Start date
- Thread starter
- #3
If you have $$$, get ahold of Thermoflow and see what they have to offer. Theirs is not freeware, but is used by the big boys.
They do have a reduced functionality demoware that you can get and tinker around with to see if it is what you are looking for.
rmw
They do have a reduced functionality demoware that you can get and tinker around with to see if it is what you are looking for.
rmw
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- #5
athomas236
Mechanical
I've been in the boiler business sice 1961, first as factory worker, then as under graduate followed by a professional career as designer with three manufacturers and last 30 years with power consultants.
I did a degree in mechanical engineering followed by a degree in sociology (what a waste of time).
If I were you I would forget about Thermoflex/Gate Cycle/GT Pro/GT Master. They may be good for analysis of cycle performance but real boiler designers have their own proprietary programs based on their own standard designs and experience.
Also remember that there is more to boiler design than just performance calculations, there is stress analysis (both code style and finite element), material science and water chemistry to name a few.
Good luck.
athomas236
I did a degree in mechanical engineering followed by a degree in sociology (what a waste of time).
If I were you I would forget about Thermoflex/Gate Cycle/GT Pro/GT Master. They may be good for analysis of cycle performance but real boiler designers have their own proprietary programs based on their own standard designs and experience.
Also remember that there is more to boiler design than just performance calculations, there is stress analysis (both code style and finite element), material science and water chemistry to name a few.
Good luck.
athomas236
athomas236,
Agree with you whole-heartedly. There seems to be a modern trend to obtaining software that will do everything for you at the "click" of a mouse-button without actually knowing what the software actually does. Maybe I'm getting too old and consider software as just a means to an end by doing the process quicker.
Agree with you whole-heartedly. There seems to be a modern trend to obtaining software that will do everything for you at the "click" of a mouse-button without actually knowing what the software actually does. Maybe I'm getting too old and consider software as just a means to an end by doing the process quicker.
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1
- #7
Montemayor
Chemical
athomas236:
Kudos to you and DSB123 for for your straight and truthful candor.
I hope IMV doesn't take your excellent and honest reply as an affront to his intelligence. I believe all of us "old timers" - who have been there and done that - heartily agree on the fact that your response is strictly meant to help and aid young engineers who might erroneously entertain the idea that there is indeed a Simulation God that solves all problems at the touch of a mouse button and follows up by taking all responsibility and liability for the final results.
There is a guy in thread124-145495 seeking to simulate the amount of chemical needed to control the pH in a TEG unit (natural gas dehydration). This is analogous to having a simulator resolve the question of when to fire up the boiler, turn it up, turn it down, add chemicals, blow it down, change fuels, and ultimately shut it down. That way we could fire everybody, keep all the salaries + benefits to ourselves and blame the damn simulator when anything went wrong. We could also simulate our careers such that we wouldn't have to work - but simply invest our money safely in a profitable stock program designed, operated, and warranted by HySys. Now, wouldn't that be nice?
There is something grossly wrong when a human being starts to believe that a computer program is an entity unto itself and can actually reason and compete with a human in arriving at good engineering judgement and common sense. It's as if God had created computers. As if there are no such things as "up-grades" and "Beta Tests". Mental laziness knows no limits and it's a shame that it can de-rail potentially good engineers into false expectations.
Kudos to you and DSB123 for for your straight and truthful candor.
I hope IMV doesn't take your excellent and honest reply as an affront to his intelligence. I believe all of us "old timers" - who have been there and done that - heartily agree on the fact that your response is strictly meant to help and aid young engineers who might erroneously entertain the idea that there is indeed a Simulation God that solves all problems at the touch of a mouse button and follows up by taking all responsibility and liability for the final results.
There is a guy in thread124-145495 seeking to simulate the amount of chemical needed to control the pH in a TEG unit (natural gas dehydration). This is analogous to having a simulator resolve the question of when to fire up the boiler, turn it up, turn it down, add chemicals, blow it down, change fuels, and ultimately shut it down. That way we could fire everybody, keep all the salaries + benefits to ourselves and blame the damn simulator when anything went wrong. We could also simulate our careers such that we wouldn't have to work - but simply invest our money safely in a profitable stock program designed, operated, and warranted by HySys. Now, wouldn't that be nice?
There is something grossly wrong when a human being starts to believe that a computer program is an entity unto itself and can actually reason and compete with a human in arriving at good engineering judgement and common sense. It's as if God had created computers. As if there are no such things as "up-grades" and "Beta Tests". Mental laziness knows no limits and it's a shame that it can de-rail potentially good engineers into false expectations.
IMV wasn't clear as to whether he was a designer of steam generators as an employee of a steam generator company or in some other capacity, such as a consultant.
Obviously if he works for one of them he can get their propriatary stuff. athomas236, you recommended some solutions to him, but didn't say where the "getting place" was for the programs you proposed, short of serving a lengthy sentence with each of them. I'd be interested in knowing where he (and I) could get the programs you recommended to him.
Short of that, if he is in a consultant type of capacity, I stand by my recommendation for Thermoflow, and would include Gate Cycle as part of the mix. For consulting, that is all he/she would need.
rmw
Obviously if he works for one of them he can get their propriatary stuff. athomas236, you recommended some solutions to him, but didn't say where the "getting place" was for the programs you proposed, short of serving a lengthy sentence with each of them. I'd be interested in knowing where he (and I) could get the programs you recommended to him.
Short of that, if he is in a consultant type of capacity, I stand by my recommendation for Thermoflow, and would include Gate Cycle as part of the mix. For consulting, that is all he/she would need.
rmw
athomas236
Mechanical
rmw,
Thermoflow provide GT Pro, GT Master and Thermoflex. Contact details are:
Thermoflow
29 Hudson Road, Sudbury, MA 01776 USA
Tele 978 579 7999
Fax 978 579 5995
Website
License fee in euros for 2004 (sorry do no have 2006 fees)
One year Long term
Initial fee Annual
GT Pro 8010 13800 3180
GT Master 8010 13800 3180
Thermoflex 9750 18000 4140
Regards,
athomas236
Thermoflow provide GT Pro, GT Master and Thermoflex. Contact details are:
Thermoflow
29 Hudson Road, Sudbury, MA 01776 USA
Tele 978 579 7999
Fax 978 579 5995
Website
License fee in euros for 2004 (sorry do no have 2006 fees)
One year Long term
Initial fee Annual
GT Pro 8010 13800 3180
GT Master 8010 13800 3180
Thermoflex 9750 18000 4140
Regards,
athomas236
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