Applicable Code

[Adalius]

Per Metengr's suggestion, I'm crossposting this from the welding forum: (original thread: here

I was viewing a job with one of our estimators. We are installing large metal hanging brackets to a block wall. In the middle of the wall span is a large column that supports the roof, a 2nd floor deck, and on the side we're working on there's also a large stool welded to support that section of an overhead crane rail for a 20 ton overhead.

Our employees asked me in front of the estimator if they can weld the hanger to the column. From a capacity standpoint I'm not entirely worried since rough math in my head works out, but from a liability standpoint I told the estimator I wasn't positive but I thought pretty strongly that a structural engineer would need to sign off on that since it's welding to a large structural entity that is supporting a lot of load already. Our company doesn't have a formal policy that addresses it but we've always operated under the mindset of being extra cautious and never put our neck out for more liability than we need to...

Long story short, he overstepped his bounds and said he's an engineer and he'll sign off on it (even though he's not a structural engineer, he's a HVAC design engineer). I was pretty pissed that he didn't even give me time to look into it and just did it. I had a talk with my manager (the VP) and he felt the same way in that a P.E. should have reviewed it.

So the question I have is, does anybody know if there's a specific code (OSHA, UBC, or some other federal or state [Wisconsin]) that specifically states that it should have been signed off because it's being welded onto a structural support/crane support? Or am I making presumptions that I shouldn't be...

I know that welding to structural is done left and right, and the crane is my concern as well, *but* the question isn't whether a PE should sign off or not, it's which standard/code/regulation says they should. My VP and I are both tradesmen so we look at this as a no-brainer, but the president is a business major and doesn't always look at things the same practical way we do. If it comes down to a pissing match between me and the estimator I want to be able to say to the boss 'Here, this is the standard that says he needs to have a PE review it because it's a crane/structural support/whatever.' so the discussion isn't my opinion versus this estimator's but instead is a 'this is what code says'.

 

[BAretired]

It goes without saying that a column (or any member) in a structure cannot be modified in a way which could jeopardize its structural integrity without a proper investigation by someone knowledgeable in structural analysis. In this case, the code which was violated was the professional code of ethics in that particular jurisdiction.

BA

 

[hokie66]

I agree with BAretired. The estimator/HVAC design engineer is giving advice outside the field of his expertise, which is unethical if he is a PE in his field. If not a PE, his advice is possibly illegally given, depending on whether there is an industrial exemption at your location.

 

[thaidavid40]

The code provision that probably governs your situation is the IBC-2012, Paragraph 3404.3. There it states that any gravity load member whose load changes by 5% or more must be designed to meet the current requirements of the code. That makes the design fall back on the qualified individual that BAretired and hokie66 described above. And not on some HVAC engineer with no structural design expertise.
Dave

Thaidavid

 

[Ron]

Agree with BAretired and hokie66. In addition, if you are using the International Building Code (which I believe is used in Wisconsin) this would be considered a Level II alteration under the Existing Building Code, requiring structural analysis.

 

[msquared48]

I also agree with the above.

One further suggestion... Suggest to your boss tell the ME to get building department approval for the structural modification, on his own time, or he is going to be fired.

Mike McCann, PE, SE (WA)