Anyone experience to pump water with windmill ? 2

[sparky1976]

Guys,
Is there anyone had experience pumping water with windmill as power source.
I need someone to advise me a website or books about pumping water with windmill.
It is not a big one, I just need to pump water with suction head 25 meters pumps to a 3000 liters tank, for home use.

Thanks in advance
Pitat

 

[pardal]

Hi Yamin: hope you solved your problem. If not here are some tips

The wind mill is a mmchine that convert wind energy in mechanic energy by rotating ist wings.
This wings moves a shaft and a gear box that convert rotational movment in an alternative movment.
The wind mill can be located any where but just over the water fountain.
There you have to do a hole to reach the water.
The pump it self will be under the water level, moved by an array of rods and pipe from the wind mill machine.
Please contact me by e-mail
Here in my country there are manufacturers of such wind mill .

Pardal

 

[235zzzo]

Hello Forum

A different way to look at this case-problem:

1. Framing notes, applied hydraulics:
1.1 Some fellows already mentioned, the required conditions in order to meet an adequate NSPH for the windmill-pump.
1.2 The limitations in the head-capacity of pumps of this kind were expressel as well.

2. A suggestion:
2.1 Instead to force one (sophisticated) pump to ful-fill those required tough conditions, why not to consider two common (cheap) pumps up the ill, in a series configuration, of course with an atmospherical vessel in-between, to receive from the first one and to serve the second pump which supplies Yamin's home ?
2.2 Those two pumps can be of different optimized size..., (and the above vessel volume, as well) to deal as best as possible with the main inputs, the wind profile "in situ", the location of the water-line and the output which is the demanding quantity of water at Yamin's home.
Regards.
zzzo

 

[TBP]

I was at a tradeshow in Toronto today, and was talking with some people at the Grundfos booth. They didn't have any literature on it (apparently only available in Europe, at least for now) on wind powered pump & generator sets. He said the info should be on the Grundfos website. I took a quick look, but didn't see anything on it. You may wish to look into this further.

 

[sparky1976]

235zzzo, thanks for you post, I'm also looking in installing 2 pumps so the suction head its not too high.
I'm going to take alook on Grundfos website.

 

[tstead]

The problem here is where to situate the windmill. Despite what many may think, you can't put a windmill *anywhere* and expect it to work.

Wind is very diffuse and unreliable - you need to put it where it will be spinning most of the time.

It does no good to have one windmill at the foot of the hill powering a booster pump when the windmill doesn't turn too terribly often.

Windmills are not the answer to our eneergy problems. Anyone that says any differently probably thinks the sky is falling and that we are drowing in our own toxic pollution being on the verge of exterminating all of mankind...

 

[pardal]

Hi all :

Something must be take in mind:

All us in this cybertime are talking about one of the most
old power aviable at this wordl.

Perhaps wind is not the solution to our energy problem, but still is free , the energy token from the air is allway more than the energy spent to build the wind mill and its depreciation time is more than a car, or a turbine, or motor applied to change the energy form.
It will be usefull to the farmer lost in the far countryland,water can be saved on pond, or let it run free on land and the grass will grow.
All the water token by this mean will go back to the same land a near it font.
If you harvest big extension of land with artificial water, most of this water will go whit the fruit up to the metropolitan markets.
Of course that a hill so far in vertical from the water fountain is not the best example to use a wind mill.
The best use of windmill is to feed cattles and the farmer's famylie at the plain praires.
Looking at most of the post one thing must be concern to all us:
For the moment and up to the time when this world is changed THERE IS NO WAY TO SUCK WATER FOR MORE THAN 10. METER FROM THE WATER FREE SURFACE, AND IT IF THE NORMAl ATMOSFERIC PRESSURE IS 1000 milliBar.
And if you browse at this phorum , ones of the most oftem problem presented is SUCTION.
Most of the pumps have a NPSH of 2 meter and more, but this meassures have a trick: It is measure from the free water
surface so for a 2 Meter HPSH IT STATE THAT YOU CAN SUCK UP TO 10 METER minus 2 METER = that is 8 meter meassured from the center line of suction flange to the water free surface.This magnitude is a whole sum of diferents meassures
The first is the geometrical distance from the suction flange to the water free surface and the other,and not less important, is the "distance" that pipe and fiting adds to this distance.
It easy to flow water from pump to up way , any one can do it, just within the limit of the head pressure , but you can change speed, power, or pump system , there are places such as in mining plant where water can go up to 3000 meter
But is impossible by the absolute imposibitie to suction water or any other liquid to its equivalent distance in atmosferic column.
For water it is 10. meter
For oil with a specific weigth of 0.8 kg/dm3 is 12.5 meter
and for Mercury (Hg) it is only about 0,760 meter.
So please review the Physiscs.

Pardal

 

[Louis23]

I own a windmill for pumping water that I installed myself. Normally, the pump for the windmill is emersed in the water. As the windmill pumps, the water level is pulled down to what is called the "pull down" level that is determined by how fast the water being pumped out is replaced in the water column. It is almost impossible to start a windmill pumping unless the pump is emersed in the water. It has nothing to do with how high you can suck a column of water. It is just that windmill pumps are not designed to pump air.

I presume Yamin's reluctance to put the pump near the water is the fact that most windmills pump the water into a riser that gravity flows to the destination. 25 meters would probably be higher than the windmill so that the water would just overflow the riser rather than run up the hill. Windmill companies have a solution for this problem. They have you install a packing gland at the top of the water column above the take off where the sucker rod passes through. Because the water cannot escape past the packing gland, it is forced out the take off by the action of the pump and rises to the destination. Frankly, I don't think there is any limit to how high this can be pumped outside of the capability of the windmill to lift the water and the ability of the packing gland to limit leakage at the well head.

Finally, as many of you have already noted ... you have to place the windmill in a place where ther is wind and head of the windmill must be high enough to be in the wind or it will not work.

I hope this helps.

 

[dcasto]

The pump is placed into the water at the bottom of the well (or whatever the source is), then pushes the water up 25 meters. The pump is called a sucker rod pump. The windmill has a cam the converts cicular motion into an up/down motion. The up down energy pumps the water. The pump can also be driven by hand with a lever.

 

SOLUTION: 1 foot valve and a check valve half way up........and don't tell me it won't work because i will then be forced to send you all pictures......my windmill is running a diaphragm guzzler pump from bosworth company with a 1" inlet and a 1.5" outlet 5" diaphragm. i can get 10 gallons a minute from it...........110' run..

 

[pardal]

Windmill guy:

Just for curiosity, could you state the distance from the intake pump, to the free water surface.

and the both distance from the intake to the two valves
the foot and the chek valve.

You can reach me at k281969@hotmail.com
but keep your post here for mutual benefits.
Pardal

 

110' run check is approx 55' from foot and water source..........once i primed it the water kept pumping. i haven't had any problems yet.........been running for a year now.......it has stopped and the water stays there......starts right back up without prime.approx. 75' drop straight down.

 

[pardal]

Windmill guy:

Do yo have a way to send me a schematic drawing please?

Use my mail as follow

Best regards.









You can reach me at k281969@hotmail.com
but keep your post here for mutual benefits.
Pardal

 

[235zzzo]

Hello Windmill Guy

I have the same request as Prof. Pardal.
I think you can do that drawing here with letters and the distances, just using your imagination,... I know you follow me.
For curiosity, shows us how it works, your solution.
We thank you.
zzzo

 

[pardal]

Hi zzzo :

I think Windmill guy never will know about our requirement because he a visitor.

Hope he browse it post.

Pardeal.

You can reach me at k281969@hotmail.com
but keep your post here for mutual benefits.
Pardal

 

[pumpjack]

I'd like to know if this question ever got answered. I got tired of reading the responses, because some of them didn't know what they were talking about.

I have a hand pump sitting behind me, it is for submersion in a pitless water well and can be hooked to a windmill. There is a lift mechanism and a check built in the pump so it can pump as high as you wish, within limits of the weight of the water verses the mechanical strength of the components.

Also, I am currently re-designing an old windmill. It is a design my company released in 1918. Naturally the bearing system sucks so I am retrofitting it with tapered rollers.

A pump is pretty cheap for the windmill... we don't even build ours anymore because the demand is little, we have them outsourced. If your windmill is working, and the pull rod is intact, and the bearings are decent, and it is over the well, just buy a standard hand pump for the specific bury depth. Our hand pumps are designed to be retrofitted to windmills.

 

[pardal]

Hope Pumpjack become a frequent visitor.

Your facts is ok , as the pum sure is under the water, and windmill or hand lever are on surface.
The most important affairs is that a lot of people does not understood about one of the most important mechanical law, toghether with the gravity law, "THERE IS ONLY ONE AND ONLY ONE ATHMOSPHERE ON THIS SO CALLED -HEART PLANET"
its value is 14.7 pound square inch or 1 Bar, or 1000 HPa
or 1.033 Kg/cm2, and with this pressure you can "suck water" only from a distance no more than 10.33 meters or 33.86 feet from free water surface to the suction device intake.
It can be a centrifugal pump , a piston pump as in wind mill, a siringhe tap, a tank with 0.1 e-18 Bar absolute pressure or any other device that up today any inventor could develope.
Many things had been developing and still is amazing all us with new and important technological and scientific affairs.

But remember: only in other planet where the atmopher is more heavier than our planet , one would suck more than 10.33 meters, or 33.86ft.

Pardal

 

[stressriser]

Pardal,
I am now a permenant resident, "pumpjack" is now known as "stressriser".

Everyone seems to be touting the fact that you can not pull more than 33-inches of mercury or 32 feet of water. This fact is irrelevant in well pumping (to a point)

Plus, the atmospheric pressure is not always 14.7 psi...this constant is for sea level. Certaintly you have not tried to boil water on top of a mountain at 20,000 feet. I'll spare you the lecture. If we can get off this undisputable fact, we could then help this guy.

Pump Jacks do not rely on any more than two or three feet of vacuum. The internal mechanism actually pushes the water up the well pipe. Did you ever operate an old fashion well pump? Did you notice that you have to pump it a bunch of times before you get any water? Did you know that some of these wells are over 100 feet deep? A hand pump with a 2-inch cylinder and a 5-inch stroke can pump water fromm 201-feet deep. It is NOT a suction lift. It is a combination of suction, then lift, suck then lift, suck then lift.

It is still unclear how the windmill is to be used. To operate a pump? or generate electricity to power a pump.

Either way, the pump should be "in the reservior" and pushing the water up the hill.

Thats settled, now Yamin beeds to make a decision

 

[pardal]

Hi, Stressriser.

What is clear for you , it is for me too.

Please browse all pumping topics and you will see how often the priming, suction, cavitation and so related tips are coming to it.

I think that this fact is not taked with the importance it deserves.


I learn about hand pump when I was 8 years old at my uncle farm , and a task to do was fill the tank when we come home after been joying outside.

He does not had a wind mill there , but they where all around other farms.

Pardal












Pardal

 

[duckbc]

Look into windmill air lift pumping,which is an interesting method of pumping water. Depending on your location, that is wind availability, the air lift pumping looks promising. Pumping requirements depend on your site conditions. Check out this website

http://airliftech.com/

 

[sparky1976]

Duckbc,
Thanks for the good link,
anyway, thanks for all the experts for their advises, after long thinking, I decide to use pumps drive by buffalo/cow that can deliver 15 liters/sec.
further research wind is not an option because we only have 3 windy months every year.(wet season).

Again thanks for all advises.
Pit