Anyone bring a Labor Attorney to their own review? 7

[casseopeia]

I want to. I just don't know if I should do it as a surprise, or let them know ahead of time. I can't count on the boss. The bad manager is still sore about being proven wrong and the HR weenie just goes with the side with the power. I've got no allies on the inside and want to bring in my own team and I'm willing to spend some of my paycheck to do it.

"Gorgeous hair is the best revenge." Ivana Trump

 

[TheTick]

Life would be easier for employers and employees alike if employers got a better grip on "at will" employment. The can terminate you simply because they want to. That's the only reason they need.

Wouldn't it be better if employers simply dumped employees without all the drumming and drama? Employers feel compelled to generate cause where none exists, causing much pain.

 

[cvg]

If you are in California, there is a significant departure from the employment-at-will doctrine for the covenant of good faith and fair dealing. Essentially, this means that there is a “just-cause” standard prohibiting termination made in bad faith or motivated by malice. If they are trying to fire you than they must prove that you were not performing your duties and one way to do that is to place records of non-performance in your personnel file. You have the right to review that file and dispute it. I would suggest you ask to review your file asap and then refute anything in it that indicates you are not performing.

 

[photoengineer]

TheTick,

In Montana, employers cannot fire employees at will after a 6 month trial period. Employers earned that law, after lawmakers observed a trend that mining companies would terminate an employee six months prior to them retiring, and this would allow the employers not to pay pension. (They had a rule that said if you were terminated prior to retirement, you would not receive a pension.)

I don't think there is anything wrong with the concept that if you are doing something incorrect at your place of work, your employer should tell you what you are doing wrong and give you a chance to correct it first...as long as what you are doing incorrect is not also illegal.

 

[casseopeia]

none of my posts on an office computer...all done from my personal laptop

"Gorgeous hair is the best revenge." Ivana Trump

 

[SLTA]

So what happened?

 

[casseopeia]

Short answer: My review was postponed until next week. Still dodging the bullet.

Long answer: My review was rescheduled because of some turmoil on a different project. Since mid-June, I have been requesting that invoices for a couple of small jobs go out with the work (sketch and letter). I kept sending reminders about the critical nature of the invoicing on this particular and unusual pair of projects. At the beginning of July, they fired the second accountant in 7 months, the 6th in 3 years. So I sent my invoicing requests to an anonymous 'accounting' inbox and waited for someone to pick up the ball. I can't generate an invoice. I don't have access to the accounting system.

Today I got an email from the Client saying that unless she had our invoice by 10 am, we would not get paid. So I sent that on the the three musketeers (Company Owner, HR weenie and Anon. Temp Accountant) with a note that I could not possibly add to it to make the message any stronger.

I was called into the bosses office, with the HR weenie, where the boss proceeded to scream at me for lacking communication skills and that was the reason I did not have an invoice. Anon Temp. Accountant was MIA.

I kind of expected the attack so I had my stack of emails and notes of conversations begging for an invoice ready, and copied. After the HR weenie searched the accounting files, she produced the invoices that had gone out by mail to the Client's home office in Michigan. So I suggested that they send invoice duplicates via email to the Client who is on location in San Francisco. I also asked why I was never told that the invoices were sent to the home office. As PM, I am usually required to review and sign invoices before they go out. But I never saw them and the only initials were my bosses and the HR weenie's.

For every defense I had, the two of them found something else about me to blame. I was so frustrated by the abject insanity that at one point I looked at the clock and said "it is after 9 am. If falling on the sword is what you want to get a couple of invoices into this Client's hands by 10 am, then I will accept complete and total blame even though of all the people involved, I am the only one who does not have access to the accounting system. And as far as communication skills, I will gladly admit that I am more polite than forceful. But at least I communicated. I made numerous attempts to get someone with the resources to respond, and no one did. No one even responded to any of my emails with the information that the invoices had been sent to Michigan on July 5th although they knew. Of the five people who could have given me that information, not one of them sent me an email, text, or stopped by my desk with a note. Nothing. And I had walked in with 15-20 emails and written notes of five conversations all clearly suggesting that I had no idea that the invoices had even been prepared.

I fully expected to be fired on the spot. Not for anything I did, but because it was painfully obvious that the mismanagement here is rampant and thoroughly engrained and I had the audacity to bring proof with me to my own dressing down.

At one point all I could do was sit in my chair and sob. I couldn't think of anything more to say. So they suggested I reschedule my review for next week after they had a chance to review my 'evidence'.



"Gorgeous hair is the best revenge." Ivana Trump

 

[tygerdawg]

It's dangerous for me to judge since I'm not in your office, but reading the thread gives me a sense of the tone of the discussions (and I reserve the right to wrong on this, as always...apologies if so):

Hard line, black & white, technical/professional, via impersonal email:

"Bill. You need to send another invoice the Z Company. This time, it needs to be sent to their SanFran office, not the Michigan office. I told you this eight weeks ago, and I've got a stack of emails proving I told you to do this. This is YOUR responsibility, not mine, and you need to do this. This is critical and needs to get done now."

Softer approach, with extra effort to do face to face in his office door:

"Hey, Bill, need a favor. Is there any way we could get another invoice to Z Company? It seems that one was sent a few weeks ago, but mistakenly was sent to the wrong office in Michigan. They're ready to pay RIGHT NOW, but for some reason the money guy is in SanFran. Sheesh, it's never easy, is it? What do you say?"

I've had to school my lovely wife on such matters before. Unfortunatley, it is CULTURAL thing about which little will change: many males don't react well to assertive females, no matter how professional they are. The character "Alice" in the Dilbert strip is a perfect example of this phenomenon.

Yeah. They're dysfunctional idiots who should be run over with an old truck and stabbed with wooden stakes. So you need to help them be better dysfunctional idiots.

The bigger question: why are you wasting your time there, and getting all aggravated in the bargain? It seems like you have your documetation to prove (to your next client/employer/self) that your reputation for professional behavior is intact. That's all that matters, what those chowderheads THINK means nothing, absolutely nothing. Drop 'em, move on, live your life.

TygerDawg
Blue Technik LLC
Virtuoso Robotics Engineering

http://www.bluetechnik.com

 

[moltenmetal]

Why on earth would you put up with that crap, just for a job?

In this case it's no longer even for a job- it's for a chance to sue them ultimately for wrongful dismissal.

Not worth it. Get out.

 

[ajack1]

When it seems that everyone is personally against you and incompetent, including the owner, it is probably a good time to take a step back and see what it is about you that makes people behave in this way, either that or just find another job.

If you find another job and everything is fine then it is probably just they they were a bunch of jerks, if the same thing happens again, it would be a really good time to take a deeper look at yourself.

 

[casseopeia]

tygerdawg, If I had known that the fired accountant had prepared the invoices, and that my boss had signed off on them, my reaction would have been entirely different. Sending the invoices out without Project Manager (me) review and sign-off is a violation of company protocol. Because I had never received the invoices to review, I was working under the assumption that the shake-up in the accounting department had delayed their preparation. What is more shocking is that in all of my emails where it is obvious that I have no idea that the invoices had even been prepared, that the 4 or 5 people who could have provided information to the contrary said nothing.

ajack1, I do have a pretty good idea of why things are the way they are, but have not said anything because it is too specific and I thought there was the possibility of repair. I will say that there is a cultural component. I might be in San Francisco, but I was born in New Orleans and raised by gentrified, well-to-do Southerners. My boss was born and raised in Taiwan and spent a portion of his youth in New York City before moving to the SF Bay area. You probably could not get more divergent styles of communication. The staff is largely very young, female, and Asian. Draw your own conclusions. Not everyone is against me. Several of my coworkers offered their support and everyone has at one point been the lightning rod for the boss' unresolved childhood issues or possibly mental disorder that I am sure fuel his outbursts.

I put up with it out of service to my Clients because when I leave, the Clients I brought in I fully intend to take with me.

"Gorgeous hair is the best revenge." Ivana Trump

 

[TheTick]

Sounds dysfunctional beyond repair. Either find a way to tolerate the environment or go (or be ejected). Sometimes there's no win. The best you can do is bring your best attitude, and consider it an exercise in character.

Don't underestimate the power of changing your response to these goons. If they see they are no longer getting under your skin, it will affect how they deal with you. They are not playing fair or judging you by your professionalism or competency. Defending yourself on those levels will not prevail.

That pretty well sums up my last employer, though not nearly as extreme as yours. Now, it seems I am at the beginning of a new, blessed era in my career. After a series of brutally dysfunctional employers, I have landed with an outfit that treats people well AND needs what I have to offer. Two months in, haven't had a bad day yet.

Praying for the same for you.

 

[lacajun]

cass, I am Southern. Once you get out of the South, manners and mannerisms are different. I've lived in other areas of the US. I've found people outside of the South that still fight "that War." I chuckle until someone threatens me with, "We whupped your _ _ _ in that war!" Yes, I've heard it in the workplace.

Sounds like people there are miserably incompetent.

It's them not you. But, you know that already.

I hope your situation is resolved soon! Don't let them get you down and continue to take the high road!

 

[moltenmetal]

Sounds like your clients are not necessarily being well served, despite your best efforts. So are you entirely sure it's still about them?

 

[MiketheEngineer]

There are two sides to every story - usually three actually.

Take a look at the third one??!!

 

[casseopeia]

Speaking of three sides, I've been doing some reading lately about the concepts of the Karpman Drama Triangle that describes the dynamics of relationships and disagreements. The major players are the Persecutor (Boss), the Victim (me) and the Rescuer (HR). The players will seek to change roles in order to further their own agenda. As a victim, I suppose my inclination would be to become with the Persecutor by turning on the HR weenie, or the Rescuer, by bringing the interests of the Client into the discussion. I am rescuing the Client who has replaced me as the Victim.

I understand all of these dynamics. What I don't know how to do is get the other players to stop their games and act like grown ups.

"Gorgeous hair is the best revenge." Ivana Trump

 

[KENAT]

And there in lies the rub with so many of these techniques etc.: they only work if everyone behaves how they're predicted/espected... to.

Posting guidelines faq731-376

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

(probably not aimed specifically at you)
What is Engineering anyway: faq1088-1484​

 

[lacajun]

What I don't know how to do is get the other players to stop their games and act like grown ups.

You cannot achieve that goal. That is not your responsibility but theirs. You are only accountable for your conduct and how you handle unpleasant situations. All you can do is your best to point things out as diplomatically as possible. If they don't understand, be patient and see how things work out. That is, if your mind is not made up on departing.

Playing games is a way of life for some people. It's how they get through life but they never see it. It's like an habitual liar never seeing the habitual lies and that it's their crutch to get through life.

 

[MikeHalloran]

It's impossible to know, from outside, what goes on inside any outfit.

You stepped into a snakepit.

I fail to understand why you persist in looking for bunny rabbits there.


Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[beej67]

Business question to the peanut gallery:

If they claim they're firing her for cause instead of laying her off due to the economy, is Cass still eligible to collect unemployment?

If not, I think Cass should co tact an attorney immediately.

Hydrology, Drainage Analysis, Flood Studies, and Complex Stormwater Litigation for Atlanta and the South East -

http://www.campbellcivil.com

 

[TheTick]

Depends on the cause. Fired for underperformance = eligible. Fired for misconduct = not eligible.