Ambidextrious

[unclesyd]

I got a call a few minutes ago concerning a welder that qualified welding right handed and was welding on a component left handed. I know I've always had a left handed welder in maintenance for very specific jobs that needed the left hand approach. I have know some welders that could weld with either hand but they always welded with the dominant one, that I knew of.

Has anyone seen any reference to this in any of the codes (US) that addresses this circumstance?

It seems the AI wasn't happy when he saw the welder switch hands on job site welding SS (SMAW). The guy is an outstanding welder and was qualified to weld anything that wasn't moving when he worked for our maintenance company.

 

[Rjeffery]

Welders qualify process (smaw, gtaw etc.) procedure and code (API 1104 et al, AWS D1.1 et al). None of these codes restrict the welder from using one hand or the other or both if needed. If the joint has a proper level of visual and NDT/NDE examination, and discontinuities that occured as a result of welding using the weaker hand, if any, will be located and if required, repaired.

CWI # 97100821

 

[stanweld]

There is nothing in ASME IX that would require a welder to qualify with one or the other hand. There is also nothing to preclude the Manufacturer/Contractor to require qualification with both hands if the Manufacturer deems it necessary. I too have often had welders who could weld equally and qualify with either hand. In some cases it was mandatory that they could do so because they would have to weld with either hand to make the production weld and in specific instances I would have them so qualify. When I was highly familiar with the welders' ability, I did not require such qualification.

Neither Section I nor Section VIII, Div.1 provide the Inspector such carte blanche latitude to reject welds made as you have described.

 

[metengr]

Stanweld is correct for ASME B&PV code. However, for work performed under the National Board Inspection Code, the AI can question a welder's ability to make a production weld based on in-situ inspection. In such cases, the AI can recommend that the welders qualification be revoked (NBIC RC- 1096 b).

 

[unclesyd]

Appreciated the prompt answers.
I knew that I didn't remember seeing anything in codes that pertained to this. Like I stated I knew welders that could weld with both hands but had just never was aware of anyone using this ability. I’m not to enthralled about the gentleman’s approach or to his resolution either. I keep my mouth shut because this is the same shop that is going to rework the vessel that I just posted about in the Ethics Forum. This vessel is for the same company.

I went by the shop to see, I already knew the vessel, the setup where the problem occurred.
The equipment being fabricated was the 20' lg, 25" Dia, 5/8" tk, CS/SS jacket of a tubular reactor. The welding in question was where the SS ends (30"long) of the jacket were being welded to the CS tube center section. The outside of the weld had been capped out and the inside weld was being made by reaching in. So both hands or a righty and lefty welder is needed. The tube wasn't on rollers as another fitter and welder were fitting nozzles on the other end that the same welder had welded the CS/SS seam earlier, probably using both hands.
They brought the X-Ray crew in and shot the first weld, clear as a bell. He wouldn't allow the welder to complete the second weld. As I left they were trying to get a lefty in and or set the tube on rollers as the last resort.

I am on the phone a lot theses days, just talked to the AI for the Owner and he said that he would have no problems with the practice if the welds pass muster. He and I were on the same page as this weld is to be ground flush and smooth and then PT and RT.

 

[weldtek]

I can understand an inspector questioning this change in technique, however, if, by way of NDE, including a visual and volumetric inspection, the weld is proven to be sound, in my opinion, the concerns should go away.

 

[deanc]

So does the WPS restrict welding in any manner?

Sounds like a big job,why not have the welder run a simple test plate with his left hand and do bends. The AI does have the right to verify his capability. Would QW-142/191.2.3 apply?

Have you ever seen a welder tack weld with no hood or no filler? Test plates are great for that.

 

[unclesyd]

Hopefully the situation has been resolved as the weld was completed and checked this morning and work on the vessel was progressing.

I talked to the shop owner this morning to get his take on the event. He and the AI had a meeting which resulted in this issue hopefully being resolved. The AI is asking for a clarification from his office, which will not put in question the work in progress.

The shop owner is thinking about having this welder run a set of coupons with both hands just to have something to fall back on if the question should arise in the future.
I don't have a ready access to QW-142/191.2.3


[/b]deanc[/b],
The only restriction on this particular WPS is that no down hand welding is allowed.

Tacking
One of the better welders I've ever worked with would do this on at least 2 of the tacks before flipping his hood. This was in the days were a land was specified on the weld prep.

I think I've seen about everything that can be done when prepping, tacking or welding. I thought the hand switch might have been something new but was reminded by the welder that I was present when he was making a repair on a sister vessel and had switched hands. He said that I had given him a hard look but didn’t say any thing.

 

[deanc]

QW-142/191.2.3 has to do with welder qualifcation and radiographs of production parts. The shop should have a SecIX.

Welders----Never say never. They will do something sometimes just because they can and to prove it to others. So run the test plates,I am sure he would love to pass and show them to the AI.

I have been on both sides of the fence here and I love it every time it comes up.

 

[evelrod]

If a welder cannot work equally well with either hand, he needs to learn. IMO, a welder that can't learn may be able to pass all the tests (the easy part of welding) and end up unable to do the job in the field. I don't need to elaborate this scenario, do I? Most good welders actually thrive on proving the inspector wrong when their ability is in question.

Rod

 

[StoneCold]

If the weld is good. I don't care if he used his foot. And as a matter of fact I can think of a few times when that would have helped!

Stonecold

 

[rmw]

According to this AI's logic, if a welder did not qualify with a mirror, then he couldn't weld using a mirror!!!

Stonecold nailed it. The product is the (good and proper) weld, not the process of producing it.

rmw