Air India 787 crashes on take off 11

[LittleInch]

A full 787-8 has crashed shortly after take off in ahmedabad.

Basically barely got off the ground then look like its trying to land in this video.

Air India ordered to carry out ‘additional maintenance actions’ on Boeing 787-8/9 fleet – as it happened

India’s ministry of civil aviation orders airline to carry out safety inspections on fleet with GE Aerospace GEnx engines after crash of flight 171

www.theguardian.com

Specualtion that they pulled flaps up instead of gear up and basically didn't have enough lift so it looks like a gentle stall right into a built up area.

Looks to be flaps up, slats/ nose flaps down and gear down which is very odd.

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

Thats a second phase of flight.

I wonder if he selected gear up which would be an expected movement.

Then his hand came down to the engine run switches and selected off.

Never heard a RAT coming out in real life. They do put them out during an air test sometimes.

I am not commenting on the alarms and indications turning off a functioning engine because I don't know. We get one for OEP (one engine performance) when the N1 goes below 25%.

And Sully said he had never heard the 2 engines failed warning before on the A320 so it's not just me. If a check airman that spends half his time in the simulator hasn't heard it before then a line pilot has even less chance.

 

[LittleInch]

Or from what I understand, the PM has his hands on the throttle levers until V1 in case you abort take off then just moved his hands down but not in until they were airborne then operated the switches?

I've seen a picture from the report (Fig 12) which shows the gear switch was in the down position.

I think we're never going to know exactly what happened to any degree of certainty, only probable cause.

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

Depends some companies including mine it's the captain that has them until V1 who ever is flying.

They were selected up before the engines shut down as the bogies had moved for retraction.

I suspect the final report will have more details.

We don't go near those switches after start until shut down. There is no reason to even as a pen holder.

 

[thebard3]

Air France 447 and other incidents demonstrated that fly-by-wire (or whatever we call it) planes don't always do what the crew command. I don't like anything that removes full authority from the pilot to do what they are trained for, so to respond to unexpected complex situations. In a case like this though, turning off both engine fuel cutoffs at such a critical time should probably not be allowed by the FADEC, assuming it really is FULL AUTHORITY DIGITAL ENGINE CONTROLLER. Maybe that falls under the category of trying to make something fool-proof, of which there is no such thing. I guess you have to expect things to operate within the envelope that they are designed for, not against suicidal pilots (I don't mean to malign the Air India pilot yet, so I'll just stick with the German Wings incident for the case of that argument for now).

 

[thebard3]

Depends some companies including mine it's the captain that has them until V1 who ever is flying.

They were selected up before the engines shut down as the bogies had moved for retraction.

I suspect the final report will have more details.

We don't go near those switches after start until shut down. There is no reason to even as a pen holder.

I see that is your 9,999th post. Let's see you do that 10K!!

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

:-D

Here ya go.

 

[LittleInch]

There's a bit of chatter now saying that the "Did you turn it off" question was repeated a few times. I can only think that the PF couldn't comprehend why this had happened and thought there must have been a reason before then turning them back on, but too late.

Not actually sure if 5 seconds earlier would have made any difference though.

This one will run and run until we get the full transcript and details.

 

[Tomfh]

Makes sense. I can’t understand how “why did you turn it off?” “I did not” would be the extent of the discussion.

 

[waross]

Assuming this is a murder-suicide and not a mistake or malfunction somehow, it's *very* damning of the FAA's policy to revoke the pilot's licenses of anyone seeking treatment for mental health issues.

On the ground, a nephew has a substance abuse problem.
He "fell off the wagon" but recovered.
He saw his doctor seeking help to avoid a repeat occurrence.
As per local law the doctor reported this past episode to the DMV.
The DMV took nephews drivers license for one year.
License learned.
In future, lie to your doctor.

 

[waross]

Makes sense. I can’t understand how “why did you turn it off?” “I did not” would be the extent of the discussion.

Followed by a deep breath and MAYDAY, MAYDAY, MAYDAY.

 

[georgeverghese]

You know there's something amiss when the granny news channels tell you some one committed suicide or when that White Helmets founder slipped off the balcony at a high rise apartment in Istanbul, or when they tell you Jeffrey Epstein hung himself in his cell at the Manhattan Corrections Centre, or when that Boeing inspector turned whistleblower committed suicide a few months ago.

 

[waross]

Does a light or message appear saying “fuel cut off” or similar?

The engines stopping is a good indication.

 

[IRstuff]

I would imagine that shutting off the engines will also result in a noticeable deceleration that your stomach will definitely notice. When flying from John Wayne with full power takeoffs followed by a drastic reduction in thrust, there would be a noticeable weightlessness feeling for a couple of seconds, until the plane settled into its lowered power climb.

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

It will give you the leans.

Which is a particularly nasty ear physio effect of declaration. Link with rapid decent it's not pleasant, vomit potential

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

FAA Plans 787 Inspections For Non-Compliant Titanium | Aviation Week Network https://aviationweek.com/air-transp...-plans-787-inspections-non-compliant-titanium

Not linked to the accident but may be of interest.

 

[Garbage1]

More of the "accused" lower grade pilots.

Delta Airlines pilot arrested at SFO on child sexual assault charges

A Delta Airlines pilot was arrested this weekend after landing at a California airport. He is facing deeply disturbing child sexual assault charges following a months-long federal investigation, authorities announced.

www.oann.com

 

[LittleInch]

I think we need to try and keep this focussed on this incident and not go into the weeds with other issues.

There doesn't seem to be much new reliable information being released for a while, but lets not fill the gap with other unrelated airline stuff.

Please.