Air India 787 crashes on take off 1

[LittleInch]

A full 787-8 has crashed shortly after take off in ahmedabad.

Basically barely got off the ground then look like its trying to land in this video.

Air India flight to London Gatwick crashes in Ahmedabad with more than 240 people onboard – latest updates

Plane for flight AI171 was carrying 242 people including 169 Indians and 53 Britons, says Air India

www.theguardian.com

Specualtion that they pulled flaps up instead of gear up and basically didn't have enough lift so it looks like a gentle stall right into a built up area.

Looks to be flaps up, slats/ nose flaps down and gear down which is very odd.

 

[thebard3]

If that's what happened, I think WOW! With the sophistication of automation on the 787, that almost sounds like something the flight control system shouldn't allow a pilot to do. I'm not a fan of a plane overruling pilot authority, but there are some things that shouldn't be possible to do. I'm admittedly not a pilot or anything specialist in aviation so I might just not know what I'm talking about.

 

[LittleInch]

There seems to be a possibility of power loss / engine failure so maybe no hydraulic power to lift the gear up. Some vague reports the RAT might have deployed.

Also lots of chatter about the plane not going to the end of the runway from some reason for takeoff so a short run up in reasonably hot weather and heavy plane.

Will be lots of speculation until they get and decode the FDR and CVR.

The plane apparently landed on a doctors residence building. I cant see any survivors from the plane myself.

 

[Pud]

There seems to be a possibility of power loss / engine failure so maybe no hydraulic power to lift the gear up. Some vague reports the RAT might have deployed.

Also lots of chatter about the plane not going to the end of the runway from some reason for takeoff so a short run up in reasonably hot weather and heavy plane.

Will be lots of speculation until they get and decode the FDR and CVR.

The plane apparently landed on a doctors residence building. I cant see any survivors from the plane myself.

RAT?
No survivors from aircraft. Just announced.

 

[thebard3]

RAT- Ram air turbine

 

[thebard3]

There seems to be a possibility of power loss / engine failure so maybe no hydraulic power to lift the gear up. Some vague reports the RAT might have deployed.

Also lots of chatter about the plane not going to the end of the runway from some reason for takeoff so a short run up in reasonably hot weather and heavy plane.

Will be lots of speculation until they get and decode the FDR and CVR.

The plane apparently landed on a doctors residence building. I cant see any survivors from the plane myself.

That would be the worst of worst case scenarios, for the plane to lose both engines and all hydraulics just as it's leaving the runway. I'm scrutinizing the wings and I don't see evidence that the flaps are extended. This wouldn't be the first crash caused by no flaps on takeoff. I remember a Northwest plane crash in Detroit 30 or so years ago. Automation has come a long way since then so someone with more knowledge than me (any knowledge, actually) would have to explain how that could happen today. Incidentally, I flew through Detroit later that same day of that crash. I felt pretty good that the chance of 2 crashes at the same airport on the same day was pretty unlikely.

 

[XR250]

My girlfriend was flying to Bali yesterday/today in a 777-300. I was reading that there has never been a crash in that jet so i felt good about it. I guess this was a 787?

 

[Pud]

A bit more information: timestamp @ 12:21

Air India crash latest: London-bound plane carrying 242 people crashes after take-off in India

There appears to be no survivors, a local police chief tells news agencies, with casualties also reported on the ground at the crash site.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[tk90]

My girlfriend was flying to Bali yesterday/today in a 777-300. I was reading that there has never been a crash in that jet so i felt good about it. I guess this was a 787?

Correct, it was a Dreamliner

 

[LittleInch]

That would be the worst of worst case scenarios, for the plane to lose both engines and all hydraulics just as it's leaving the runway. I'm scrutinizing the wings and I don't see evidence that the flaps are extended. This wouldn't be the first crash caused by no flaps on takeoff. I remember a Northwest plane crash in Detroit 30 or so years ago. Automation has come a long way since then so someone with more knowledge than me (any knowledge, actually) would have to explain how that could happen today. Incidentally, I flew through Detroit later that same day of that crash. I felt pretty good that the chance of 2 crashes at the same airport on the same day was pretty unlikely.

Reading the pilots website it seems there is an alarm if you don't set ANY flaps, but this could easily be as little as 5 degrees so hardly visible or somehow they raised flaps instead of gear. Difficult to believe that one as the lever is on the other side of the throttle levers from each other. The 787 computer doesn't register if you've set the right flaps for the location or the weight of the plane.

 

[thebard3]

This picture seems to indicate that maybe the flaps were not retracted, maybe, or not?

 

[XR250]

The plane does not seem excessively nose-up in the video. Wouldn't that mean it had enough flaps and speed to take off or was ground effect helping it?

 

[LittleInch]

This is pretty chilling.

Just looks like they ran out of power.

Still doesn't look like a whole lot of flap down, but the 787 is pretty slimline.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1933162059556159903

 

[Roga50]

This picture seems to indicate that maybe the flaps were not retracted, maybe, or not?

View attachment 10722

Assuming the crash didn't move things, that doesn't look like much flaps. Maybe 5 degrees?

 

[LittleInch]

The plane does not seem excessively nose-up in the video. Wouldn't that mean it had enough flaps and speed to take off or was ground effect helping it?

Not so much ground effect as drag. Runway speed you get lift, but not the extra drag you get from an increased AoA once you rotate and try and climb . The video from the runway actually seems to show that they lowered the nose a bit after the take off roll to try and trade height or climb for velocity.

But something stopped them raising the gear which is another major drag element.

No evidence of bird strike or smoke, just couldn't keep it in the air

 

[TugboatEng]

Of course this gets reported as a "Boeing" crashing in the headlines.

 

[TugboatEng]

Here is a RAT on a 787. They're quite noisy apparently. I see no indication that one was deployed in this incident.

One of the crash videos has sound and you cannot hear a RAT.

https://www.reddit.com/r/aviation/comments/19fhy55/7878_landing_with_the_rat_deployed_sounds_like_a

 

[thebard3]

My girlfriend was flying to Bali yesterday/today in a 777-300. I was reading that there has never been a crash in that jet so i felt good about it. I guess this was a 787?

A British Airways 777 crashed short of the runway at Heathrow. This was due to icing in the fuel system and drove a pretty simple design change. There were no fatalities but there were some serious injuries.
Another 777 crashed while landing at San Francisco due to pilot errors. I don't think anyone died in the crash but a couple of passengers died during the emergency response.
I think there was a third crash during takeoff in Dubai or somewhere over there where the pilots retracted the landing gear a little too early when the ambient temperature was extremely high causing a loss of lift. I think a firefighter died during that incident.
A couple were shot down, MH370 was a 777 and a few were lost without injuries due to incidents on the ground.
That's still a pretty good record for a model that's been around for about 30 years.

 

[structeng111]

One survivor is now reported and he claims to have heard a loud bang soon after take-off.

 

[1503-44]

Anybody have a flight track file?

FlightRadar24
Initial ADS-B data from flight #AI171 shows that the aircraft reached a maximum barometric altitude of 625 feet (airport altitude is about 200 feet) and then it started to descend with an vertical speed of -475 feet per minute.