Tek-Tips is the largest IT community on the Internet today!
Members share and learn making Tek-Tips Forums the best source of peer-reviewed technical information on the Internet!
-
Congratulations MintJulep on being selected by the Eng-Tips community for having the most helpful posts in the forums last week. Way to Go!
9 cyl. radial motorcycle picture 1
- Thread starter amorrison
- Start date
An interesting read on radial and aircraft engine design is W.O. Bently's auto biography. It is long out of print but you can find it used. It also talks about his cars and his entire career.
The best story is where some American auto executive is telling him that the problem with his company that the engineers have to much power and that the accountants should be in control. He didn't realise that Bently was an engineer. The irony is that in the end the accounts did take over the company.
The best story is where some American auto executive is telling him that the problem with his company that the engineers have to much power and that the accountants should be in control. He didn't realise that Bently was an engineer. The irony is that in the end the accounts did take over the company.
One particularly interesting application of a radial engine was the very first Sherman M4 tank.
This had a 400 Hp air cooled radial engine that sat right behind the driver and tank commander. Their heads were only about a foot in front of those rather large finned cylinder barrels. The gearbox was between driver and commander at hip level, and it drove the tracks from the front.
I often wondered about the heat and noise, especially in the tropics with the hatches shut. Later versions of the Sherman used a diesel engine.
This had a 400 Hp air cooled radial engine that sat right behind the driver and tank commander. Their heads were only about a foot in front of those rather large finned cylinder barrels. The gearbox was between driver and commander at hip level, and it drove the tracks from the front.
I often wondered about the heat and noise, especially in the tropics with the hatches shut. Later versions of the Sherman used a diesel engine.
MikeHalloran
Mechanical
A long time ago, I crawled up on what I think was a Sherman in an armory's back lot and opened the engine hatch. The engine was big, clearly air cooled, and I think maybe a V12. I don't know what it used for fuel.
Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA
Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA
The Sherman seems to have used a whole range of different production engines at different times. Some may even have been fitted with non standard engines.
Right at the end there is a list of engines used.
There is an early fully restored M4 Sherman at a tank museum here in Melbourne. They also had some engine parts on display, including a radial that had blown up. Apparently the master connecting rod had failed, and all the other connecting rods were twisted into unbelievable shapes, quite a sight.
Right at the end there is a list of engines used.
There is an early fully restored M4 Sherman at a tank museum here in Melbourne. They also had some engine parts on display, including a radial that had blown up. Apparently the master connecting rod had failed, and all the other connecting rods were twisted into unbelievable shapes, quite a sight.
At the museum in Harlingen Texas, there is what I think is a Sherman on display but it may be some other WWII motorized implement. I looked in the engine hatch and saw what I think is 4 or 5 flathead engines joined by a common crankcase (arranged in a radial formation!) with what I assume is some sort of spur gear setup on the drive end. It may have been Cadillac flathead V-8's. With the exception of the top one, the others were arranged in some inverted fashion. Cool!
Franz
eng-tips, by professional engineers for professional engineers
Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips Fora.
Franz
eng-tips, by professional engineers for professional engineers
Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips Fora.
I recall seeing a picture in a book a very long time ago which sounds like that same engine.
This was a four row radial engine of five cylinders (20 cylinders altogether) and it used standard production flathead V8 crank, pistons, rods and cylinder heads.
Only the block was special. Almost everything else came straight off existing wartime production lines. As I recall from the article, this engine was developed at very short notice during WW2 as a tank engine, and was only made in very small numbers.
This was a four row radial engine of five cylinders (20 cylinders altogether) and it used standard production flathead V8 crank, pistons, rods and cylinder heads.
Only the block was special. Almost everything else came straight off existing wartime production lines. As I recall from the article, this engine was developed at very short notice during WW2 as a tank engine, and was only made in very small numbers.
GregLocock
Automotive
I think you'll find (code for, I checked and...) it was used in 7500 M4A4 Shermans. That's roughly 20% of total production. It was called the Chrysler A57.
The engine was a lot bigger than the earlier ones so the hull was made longer to accomodate it.
The (Australian) Sentinel used a similar arrangement of 3 V8s, because V8s RULE.
Cheers
Greg Locock
Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.
The engine was a lot bigger than the earlier ones so the hull was made longer to accomodate it.
The (Australian) Sentinel used a similar arrangement of 3 V8s, because V8s RULE.
Cheers
Greg Locock
Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.
Re: the tank engines.
They were quite common, called "tank engines" and available surplus for many years after the war. They were Continental W-670's, 7 cylinder, rated 225 hp. Used often by crop dusters. (why overhaul? just get another tank engine)
On gasoline fueled armor:
Pilot sometimes called the Betty Bomber "the flying Zippo" - a few hits and in was burning. In turn, the Germans called our Sherman tank "the Ronson" for the same reason. A gasoline powered tank is easy to light.
They were quite common, called "tank engines" and available surplus for many years after the war. They were Continental W-670's, 7 cylinder, rated 225 hp. Used often by crop dusters. (why overhaul? just get another tank engine)
On gasoline fueled armor:
Pilot sometimes called the Betty Bomber "the flying Zippo" - a few hits and in was burning. In turn, the Germans called our Sherman tank "the Ronson" for the same reason. A gasoline powered tank is easy to light.
-
1
- #34
Fabrico is correct.
Howard Hughes used Pratt & Whitney R-4360's to power the "Spruce Goose". They were the early "high tension" ignition model engines and had severe engine miss fire at altitude. This was cured by what was called the "low tension" ignition configuration later on in the R-4360 development.
I was a USAF reciprocating engine mechanic during the Viet Nam war. My first few years were spent working on R-4360's as installed on Douglas C-124 aircraft. The flight engineers panel had four osciloscopes. One for each engine ignition. Also, the engines had torque meters built into the nose case. Another item for the flight engineer to monitor on take-off.
Being behind one of these engines on a test stand during "military takeoff power" was, well, unreal to say the least.
A very few Chance-Vaught F4U (Corsair) fighters (WW II) were engined with R-4360's. If I remember correctly, the pilot had to take off with the tail wheel down for prop clearance. Landing, ditto. Also, the torque was so severe that take off was extremely------EXCITING!
The F4U with R-2800, R3350 (Wright 18 cylinder) and especially with a R-4360 were the air superiority fighter of WW II. I know several pilots who flew F4U's in combat in the Pacific. They have great stories about these radial powered machines.
Howard Hughes used Pratt & Whitney R-4360's to power the "Spruce Goose". They were the early "high tension" ignition model engines and had severe engine miss fire at altitude. This was cured by what was called the "low tension" ignition configuration later on in the R-4360 development.
I was a USAF reciprocating engine mechanic during the Viet Nam war. My first few years were spent working on R-4360's as installed on Douglas C-124 aircraft. The flight engineers panel had four osciloscopes. One for each engine ignition. Also, the engines had torque meters built into the nose case. Another item for the flight engineer to monitor on take-off.
Being behind one of these engines on a test stand during "military takeoff power" was, well, unreal to say the least.
A very few Chance-Vaught F4U (Corsair) fighters (WW II) were engined with R-4360's. If I remember correctly, the pilot had to take off with the tail wheel down for prop clearance. Landing, ditto. Also, the torque was so severe that take off was extremely------EXCITING!
The F4U with R-2800, R3350 (Wright 18 cylinder) and especially with a R-4360 were the air superiority fighter of WW II. I know several pilots who flew F4U's in combat in the Pacific. They have great stories about these radial powered machines.
At one of the older Texas Confedrate Air Shows, one of the only flying B-29's lost a jug during takeoff but completed the show with a feathered prop.
When they landed, a crowd gathered around as the techs pulled the cowling, located the bad jug and piston and replaced same. I seem to remember it being somewhere in the middle of the stack, facing the engine about the 9'oclock position, plus seeing more safety wire, nuts, clips, and shielding I have ever seen. Air cooled engines have an advantage on engine repair without draining coolant.
The process took about 4 hours, certainly not war-time speed, but no one was shooting at you either!
Franz
eng-tips, by professional engineers for professional engineers
Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips Fora.
When they landed, a crowd gathered around as the techs pulled the cowling, located the bad jug and piston and replaced same. I seem to remember it being somewhere in the middle of the stack, facing the engine about the 9'oclock position, plus seeing more safety wire, nuts, clips, and shielding I have ever seen. Air cooled engines have an advantage on engine repair without draining coolant.
The process took about 4 hours, certainly not war-time speed, but no one was shooting at you either!
Franz
eng-tips, by professional engineers for professional engineers
Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips Fora.
BradVanasse
Mechanical
If I may regress temporarily, Mike Halloran is right, the motorcycle is a 7-cylinder. A line splitting one cylinder in half and extending through the shaft center leaves 3-1/2 cylinders within 180 degrees; 3-1/2 x 2 = 7.
The neatest radial that I have seen was a comparatively minute 5-cylinder, vertical shaft, on what appeared to be a portable military generator set. I couldn't help but think of what a fascinating way to accomplish what could surely have been done more inexpensively with a single or twin Briggs and Stratton. Only in the military!
I suppose that that configuration (5-cylinder, vertical shaft) would be the only way to have an even firing, inherently balanced 5-cylinder automobile engine. It could feed directly into a front (or rear) drive transaxle.
The neatest radial that I have seen was a comparatively minute 5-cylinder, vertical shaft, on what appeared to be a portable military generator set. I couldn't help but think of what a fascinating way to accomplish what could surely have been done more inexpensively with a single or twin Briggs and Stratton. Only in the military!
I suppose that that configuration (5-cylinder, vertical shaft) would be the only way to have an even firing, inherently balanced 5-cylinder automobile engine. It could feed directly into a front (or rear) drive transaxle.
Here's a link to another version of the radial scooter which does indeed employ a Rotec 7 cylinder engine.
Looks a little more practical then the first one mentioned.
Looks a little more practical then the first one mentioned.
Here a link to a picture of the Nordberg diesel. These are big radial diesels that I believe were first made in the 20s. They powered a lot of municipal water systems ( an may still be).
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
- Question
- Locked
- Question
- Locked
- Question