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8130 vs CofC Aviation
- Thread starter Maada
- Start date
I Googled ARC-8130 and was unable determine what that is.
NOTE.
I have a MIL 'mindset so I defaulted to ARC designation [Aircraft Radio Component]… but that that doesn't make sense.
Soooo...
Are You actually referring to Form FAA 8130-* for installation of a USB port?
Regards, Wil Taylor
o Trust - But Verify!
o We believe to be true what we prefer to be true. [Unknown]
o For those who believe, no proof is required; for those who cannot believe, no proof is possible. [variation,Stuart Chase]
o Unfortunately, in science what You 'believe' is irrelevant. ["Orion", Homebuiltairplanes.com forum]
NOTE.
I have a MIL 'mindset so I defaulted to ARC designation [Aircraft Radio Component]… but that that doesn't make sense.
Soooo...
Are You actually referring to Form FAA 8130-* for installation of a USB port?
Regards, Wil Taylor
o Trust - But Verify!
o We believe to be true what we prefer to be true. [Unknown]
o For those who believe, no proof is required; for those who cannot believe, no proof is possible. [variation,Stuart Chase]
o Unfortunately, in science what You 'believe' is irrelevant. ["Orion", Homebuiltairplanes.com forum]
- Thread starter
- #4
![[wink]](/data/assets/smilies/wink.gif "[wink] [wink]")
no ...
8130 (FAA approvals) would only be valid in the US, no?
are you installing this USB on your own plane ?
are you asking "this mod is smaller than an STC, what approval doc do I need ?"
if so, I doubt a CofC would do ... this only says the part is compliant to the engineering, and nothing about compliance to FARs.
another day in paradise, or is paradise one day closer ?
8130 (FAA approvals) would only be valid in the US, no?
are you installing this USB on your own plane ?
are you asking "this mod is smaller than an STC, what approval doc do I need ?"
if so, I doubt a CofC would do ... this only says the part is compliant to the engineering, and nothing about compliance to FARs.
another day in paradise, or is paradise one day closer ?
- Thread starter
- #6
8130 (FAA approvals) would only be valid in the US, no? - We still require 8130 when the part was bought in the US
are you installing this USB on your own plane ? - client's plane so he needs to comply with the CAA requirements
are you asking "this mod is smaller than an STC, what approval doc do I need ?" Yes
if so, I doubt a CofC would do ... this only says the part is compliant to the engineering, and nothing about compliance to FARs. i see
are you installing this USB on your own plane ? - client's plane so he needs to comply with the CAA requirements
are you asking "this mod is smaller than an STC, what approval doc do I need ?" Yes
if so, I doubt a CofC would do ... this only says the part is compliant to the engineering, and nothing about compliance to FARs. i see
ok, so you're in the UK ? (CAA)
I don't know the CAA system, but here in Canada I don't think there's a smaller approval for a change than an STC.
I think in the US they use an 8110 "field approval" for small changes.
If you're saying that you getting an STC and you're asking what paperwork approves a part, then I'd say either works. Both (8130 and CofC) say this part conforms to it's engineering, so the part is an approved part and can be installed under your STC.
another day in paradise, or is paradise one day closer ?
I don't know the CAA system, but here in Canada I don't think there's a smaller approval for a change than an STC.
I think in the US they use an 8110 "field approval" for small changes.
If you're saying that you getting an STC and you're asking what paperwork approves a part, then I'd say either works. Both (8130 and CofC) say this part conforms to it's engineering, so the part is an approved part and can be installed under your STC.
another day in paradise, or is paradise one day closer ?
OK, I'm a bit surprised about this inquiry...
A quick Google search 'aircraft usb charging port tso' found multiple charging ports intended for aircraft use... various configurations with TSOs 'in-place'. Hence these companies should be able to guide You thru the process to legally/safely install their devices, IE: circuit diagrams, sample paperwork, tech support, etc.
Example... ONE digital clock installation had [2]USB ports below the time read-out and claimed TSO. cool!
Regards, Wil Taylor
o Trust - But Verify!
o We believe to be true what we prefer to be true. [Unknown]
o For those who believe, no proof is required; for those who cannot believe, no proof is possible. [variation,Stuart Chase]
o Unfortunately, in science what You 'believe' is irrelevant. ["Orion", Homebuiltairplanes.com forum]
A quick Google search 'aircraft usb charging port tso' found multiple charging ports intended for aircraft use... various configurations with TSOs 'in-place'. Hence these companies should be able to guide You thru the process to legally/safely install their devices, IE: circuit diagrams, sample paperwork, tech support, etc.
Example... ONE digital clock installation had [2]USB ports below the time read-out and claimed TSO. cool!
Regards, Wil Taylor
o Trust - But Verify!
o We believe to be true what we prefer to be true. [Unknown]
o For those who believe, no proof is required; for those who cannot believe, no proof is possible. [variation,Stuart Chase]
o Unfortunately, in science what You 'believe' is irrelevant. ["Orion", Homebuiltairplanes.com forum]
TSO doesn't give authority to modify an aircraft... as far as I know... It just says the equipment meets some standard and as long as that appliance has been approved for that aircraft it may be installed. You would want to look for an STC for certified aircraft or...
You may be able to pull: 14 CFR §1.1 and §21.93(a) as it has “no appreciable effect on the weight, balance, structural strength, reliability, operational characteristics, or other characteristics affecting the airworthiness” of the aircraft.
In that case no STC, Form 337 submittal or FSDO field approval is required per FAA Order 8900.1 Figure 4-67. A §43.9 airframe logbook entry may be sufficient to document this alteration and return the aircraft to service. Can literally install a USB charger from Autozone like that.
8130-* seems... excessive to me... maybe I'm missing something.
Put a good breaker on it. lol
You may be able to pull: 14 CFR §1.1 and §21.93(a) as it has “no appreciable effect on the weight, balance, structural strength, reliability, operational characteristics, or other characteristics affecting the airworthiness” of the aircraft.
In that case no STC, Form 337 submittal or FSDO field approval is required per FAA Order 8900.1 Figure 4-67. A §43.9 airframe logbook entry may be sufficient to document this alteration and return the aircraft to service. Can literally install a USB charger from Autozone like that.
8130-* seems... excessive to me... maybe I'm missing something.
Put a good breaker on it. lol
I'm still not comfortable with the idea of a USB connector on an instrument panel clock.
Tell me when have any of you before seen a cable coming out of an instrument panel? What kind of entanglement mess is being set up here?
The only concession that I see normally done are the headsets that all pilots wear, and those jacks are usually placed at the far sides, if they're even in the instrument panel at all (usually they aren't).
This is the kind of clock with USB port you can get:
Are you absolutely sure you want to add more cables to an instrument panel? Headsets are one thing, USB cables invite so many more uses. Also, the replacement of a clock may or may not be obtrusive. Take the example I found below. The red arrow is off to the side, and right beside the jacks for the headsets. Probably no big deal. The blue arrow on the right side may also be a clock (but possibly a total fuel consumption counter). If that was replaced to put in a clock with a USB port, I think I'd have more concerns about that location.
[ul][li]Proximity to control yoke.[/li]
[li]Mixed up with the throttle mixture controls (red knob)[/li]
[li]Hanging between your legs.[/li][/ul]
I personally believe that people who become pilots are self-selected and trained to be pretty clever about these kinds of issues, so ultimately it will rarely be an problem that any pilot would allow to get dangerous. But doesn't it look like we're violating a principle of design, here? Name for me an aircraft instrument panel that normally has cables hanging off of it? Pictures, please? Setting aside the usual headphone cables, of course, what examples are there?
Tell me when have any of you before seen a cable coming out of an instrument panel? What kind of entanglement mess is being set up here?
The only concession that I see normally done are the headsets that all pilots wear, and those jacks are usually placed at the far sides, if they're even in the instrument panel at all (usually they aren't).
This is the kind of clock with USB port you can get:
Are you absolutely sure you want to add more cables to an instrument panel? Headsets are one thing, USB cables invite so many more uses. Also, the replacement of a clock may or may not be obtrusive. Take the example I found below. The red arrow is off to the side, and right beside the jacks for the headsets. Probably no big deal. The blue arrow on the right side may also be a clock (but possibly a total fuel consumption counter). If that was replaced to put in a clock with a USB port, I think I'd have more concerns about that location.
[ul][li]Proximity to control yoke.[/li]
[li]Mixed up with the throttle mixture controls (red knob)[/li]
[li]Hanging between your legs.[/li][/ul]
I personally believe that people who become pilots are self-selected and trained to be pretty clever about these kinds of issues, so ultimately it will rarely be an problem that any pilot would allow to get dangerous. But doesn't it look like we're violating a principle of design, here? Name for me an aircraft instrument panel that normally has cables hanging off of it? Pictures, please? Setting aside the usual headphone cables, of course, what examples are there?
Oh yeah. The elephant in the room.
The reason to do this is because 99% of pilots want to have their iPad to serve as an EFB, so they need to plug it in to keep the battery going for a multi-hour flight. The provision to put in the USB is a directly applicable provision to use it as an EFB. Often suction-cup to the window. Clutter. Field of view. Glare. Night vision. While not part of the iPad, the intent of the USB port is to enable its use in the cockpit. Take care!
The reason to do this is because 99% of pilots want to have their iPad to serve as an EFB, so they need to plug it in to keep the battery going for a multi-hour flight. The provision to put in the USB is a directly applicable provision to use it as an EFB. Often suction-cup to the window. Clutter. Field of view. Glare. Night vision. While not part of the iPad, the intent of the USB port is to enable its use in the cockpit. Take care!
- Thread starter
- #13
I'd go to Pilots of America or any aircraft type user group and ask what they did or are doing, if it's a GA airplane.
As far as aircraft modifications go, I believe this is FAA minor. There are (US) rules about parts that can be installed in Type Certificated aircraft. If the manufacturer makes this unit for installation on aircraft, it's easier marketing for them to get an STC. That makes it a legitimate aircraft part on the aircraft types they have approval for. Talk to your A&P or an IA.
An airplane equipped for IFR operations must have a clock per part 91. There may be a TSO that defines what the FAA considers a clock to be or what requirements must be met.
GA Pilots fly around with personal electronics devices plugged into aux power outlet (a.k.a. cigarette lighter connector) usb power converters literally ALL the time. Cheap ones can make a lot of radio noise.
My posts reflect my personal views and are not in any way endorsed or approved by any organization I'm professionally affiliated with.
As far as aircraft modifications go, I believe this is FAA minor. There are (US) rules about parts that can be installed in Type Certificated aircraft. If the manufacturer makes this unit for installation on aircraft, it's easier marketing for them to get an STC. That makes it a legitimate aircraft part on the aircraft types they have approval for. Talk to your A&P or an IA.
An airplane equipped for IFR operations must have a clock per part 91. There may be a TSO that defines what the FAA considers a clock to be or what requirements must be met.
GA Pilots fly around with personal electronics devices plugged into aux power outlet (a.k.a. cigarette lighter connector) usb power converters literally ALL the time. Cheap ones can make a lot of radio noise.
My posts reflect my personal views and are not in any way endorsed or approved by any organization I'm professionally affiliated with.
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